May (Q3) 2023

[32andBelow]

How the hell are large tracons supposed to ever get our head above water if we keep keep getting 1-2 selections a quarter? We’re losing more than that to off our boards to sup bids alone.

Academy. If a center can train from zero why can’t a large tracon?

 

[allaboutthebussy]

How the hell are large tracons supposed to ever get our head above water if we keep keep getting 1-2 selections a quarter? We’re losing more than that to off our boards to sup bids alone.

Same as almost every facility in the NAS. We’re at the bottom getting zero ERRs and zero academy grads. Losing to Sup bids, DOD, retirement etc. The FAA simply needs to hire more people. They’ve been under hiring for years and still under hiring today. Even if they hired 5000 controllers this year half would wash because of their stupid hiring practices.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Same as almost every facility in the NAS. We’re at the bottom getting zero ERRs and zero academy grads. Losing to Sup bids, DOD, retirement etc. The FAA simply needs to hire more people. They’ve been under hiring for years and still under hiring today. Even if they hired 5000 controllers this year half would wash because of their stupid hiring practices.

You know they can't run 5000 people through the Academy in a year...

 

[Dontbotherme]

Academy. If a center can train from zero why can’t a large tracon?

We don’t have bullshit D and A sides where people can hide, for years, before talking to an actual airplane.

 

[Papacharlie327]

Then NCEPT should be every two months, not quarterly.

Also, can someone mention hardships due to NCEPT? I want to see more drama and rustled jimmies.

I wish someone would rear back and knock rich Santa on his ass. The man that stonewalled our careers…..calling it a robust program

 

[Ad1234]

Then NCEPT should be every two months, not quarterly.

Also, can someone mention hardships due to NCEPT? I want to see more drama and rustled jimmies.

There have been about 900 hardships. Wonder how many were legit and how many fucked some many other people over?

 

[doodii]

There have been about 900 hardships. Wonder how many were legit and how many fucked some many other people over?

It’s none of our business. It’s in the CBA and is legal to use.

 

[32andBelow]

We don’t have bullshit D and A sides where people can hide, for years, before talking to an actual airplane.

Irrelevant statement

 

[Dontbotherme]

Irrelevant statement

It’s not an irrelevant statement. The skill level needed at most, not all, high level tracons far exceeds simply the issuing of the altimeter and the missing of crossing/speed restrictions in the enroute environment. There are far fewer places to hide employees at higher level tracons versus enroute.

 

[32andBelow]

It’s not an irrelevant statement. The skill level needed at most, not all, high level tracons far exceeds simply the issuing of the altimeter and the missing of crossing/speed restrictions in the enroute environment. There are far fewer places to hide employees at higher level tracons versus enroute.

We don’t staff a side and you can’t get certified only on the d side. You have get certified all the way on the r side like everyone else. There are plenty complex center sectors

 

[bravounite33]

We don’t staff a side and you can’t get certified only on the d side. You have get certified all the way on the r side like everyone else. There are plenty complex center sectors

Yes, you have to get all the D and the R sides but you also spend the first year or two training/working only the D side. That gives you so much more experience on that specific sector so when it comes time to actually work the R, you already know the sector, you just have to figure out how to talk to and work the planes now. In the TRACON, you go right in to working everything with no benefit of a D side or anything to get familiar with the sector. You just have to learn it as you go with those hours ticking away. Having gone through both, the center training is 100% better designed and manageable for an AG or no radar experience CPC-IT over a high level TRACON. There are definitely those that can succeed, don't get me wrong, but the center is just a better set up for success.

 

[acutetriangles]

There have been about 900 hardships. Wonder how many were legit and how many fucked some many other people over?

Probably about 50/50

 

[32andBelow]

Yes, you have to get all the D and the R sides but you also spend the first year or two training/working only the D side. That gives you so much more experience on that specific sector so when it comes time to actually work the R, you already know the sector, you just have to figure out how to talk to and work the planes now. In the TRACON, you go right in to working everything with no benefit of a D side or anything to get familiar with the sector. You just have to learn it as you go with those hours ticking away. Having gone through both, the center training is 100% better designed and manageable for an AG or no radar experience CPC-IT over a high level TRACON. There are definitely those that can succeed, don't get me wrong, but the center is just a better set up for success.

So if this makes the difference then send kids from academy to tracon and give them a year to d side. Easy fix. Btw I’m talking about fixing the tracon training

 

[the inquirer]

So if this makes the difference then send kids from academy to tracon and give them a year to d side. Easy fix. Btw I’m talking about fixing the tracon training

You'd have to figure out a different way. There really isn't much to do in the handoff position at a tracon vs a d side at a center. I've also gone through both. On most sectors in the center I was given 180 hours per d side and 180 per r side. In the tracon, I was given 120 per position. You get the 2 required handoff hours and that it. And there is a lot more to learn about vs the center. I would love to see trainees coming to us from the academy and I'm sure we'll have them succeed if we give them more hours like the center but then the checkout times will be 3 years instead of 1. It's a very steep learning curve even for someone coming from a center.

 

[32andBelow]

You'd have to figure out a different way. There really isn't much to do in the handoff position at a tracon vs a d side at a center. I've also gone through both. On most sectors in the center I was given 180 hours per d side and 180 per r side. In the tracon, I was given 120 per position. You get the 2 required handoff hours and that it. And there is a lot more to learn about vs the center. I would love to see trainees coming to us from the academy and I'm sure we'll have them succeed if we give them more hours like the center but then the checkout times will be 3 years instead of 1. It's a very steep learning curve even for someone coming from a center.

The d side at center does nothing. It’s just tracon people here claiming it makes a huge difference. Giving more hours is sternly easy. As I said they can easily train new hires at tracon if they tried. It’s not like everyone passes center training either

 

[hpwjuicebox]

You'd have to figure out a different way. There really isn't much to do in the handoff position at a tracon vs a d side at a center. I've also gone through both. On most sectors in the center I was given 180 hours per d side and 180 per r side. In the tracon, I was given 120 per position. You get the 2 required handoff hours and that it. And there is a lot more to learn about vs the center. I would love to see trainees coming to us from the academy and I'm sure we'll have them succeed if we give them more hours like the center but then the checkout times will be 3 years instead of 1. It's a very steep learning curve even for someone coming from a center.

180 hours for a D side? No wonder some of these Zs have 4 year checkout times.

 

[CaptainObvious]

The d side at center does nothing. It’s just tracon people here claiming it makes a huge difference. Giving more hours is sternly easy. As I said they can easily train new hires at tracon if they tried. It’s not like everyone passes center training either

It’s ok. There’s nothing to learn at the center anyway. No wonder the TRACON is insufferable with their no notice shutoffs and superiority. Also TRACON folks, if you’re going to hem and haw about taking a handoff and try and bring up what the LOA or STAR says, make sure you’re correct on the info.

 

[doodii]

It’s ok. There’s nothing to learn at the center anyway. No wonder the TRACON is insufferable with their no notice shutoffs and superiority. Also TRACON folks, if you’re going to hem and haw about taking a handoff and try and bring up what the LOA or STAR says, make sure you’re correct on the info.

My buddy was talking about how MIA shut off the Center the other day, but somehow TMU allowed them to flood the Center sectors with departures. You're holding everyone we won't allow in? Let's make it better and shove departures in there too. Lol.

 

[32andBelow]

My buddy was talking about how MIA shut off the Center the other day, but somehow TMU allowed them to flood the Center sectors with departures. You're holding everyone we won't allow in? Let's make it better and shove departures in there too. Lol.

Oh this happens almost every day. We have to give some MIT but we get a 737 behind a king air on the same heading out the departure gate

 

[Ad1234]

It’s none of our business. It’s in the CBA and is legal to use.

It’s also assumed you have a legit hardship.

Probably about 50/50

That’s nearly 1k movements blocked by the fake 50 percent.