May (Q3) 2023

[Phanatical]

If they had free placement and movement then the FAA could actually offer things like move bids. Tdy. Moving money. Use CIP correctly. Let center guys do a 2 year tower TDY so they can get their CTO. But now they can offer like nothing.

The FAA doesn’t offer CTO’s. You only get those in contract and military IIRC.

 

[Bandit117]

That's not the person they're mad at. Why is it so hard to understand? Hes mad at the person who just suddenly developed allergies and they need to go to Denver tower. No they can't accept centennial or Rocky Mountain metro only Denver tower will do. Or the person whose spouse has suddenly developed anxiety so bad because they are separated from their family and can't live in another state.

Again, be mad at natca for signing off of it, you can submit any hardship you like. It’s in the contract, it’s just as much a right to submit a hardship as it is to take sick leave. It’s natca and the faa who jointly deem The hardships valid or not, and approve or deny them. It’s like coordination … you can ask for anything you want, no matter how stupid. The person to blame is the person who says approved.

The big thing that takes the workforce out at the knees are supervisor deviations. Getting out of ZLA to be a supe at a level 5 VFR tower is considered a promotion, but someone who has been at a level 8 and is trying to go to a 11/12 tracon or center isn’t a promotion.

 

[boots]

That's not the person they're mad at. Why is it so hard to understand? Hes mad at the person who just suddenly developed allergies and they need to go to Denver tower. No they can't accept centennial or Rocky Mountain metro only Denver tower will do. Or the person whose spouse has suddenly developed anxiety so bad because they are separated from their family and can't live in another state.

My personal favorite right now is the high risk pregnancy from the other thread.

 

[32andBelow]

The FAA doesn’t offer CTO’s. You only get those in contract and military IIRC.

Whatever you want to call it. A chance to work at a tower

My personal favorite right now is the high risk pregnancy from the other thread.

With woke republicans banning women’s healthcare it’s not so crazy

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

Anyone older than 35 is considered a risk pregnancy.... they define the term very loosely.

 

[boots]

Anyone older than 35 is considered a risk pregnancy.... they define the term very loosely.

So you’re saying I just need to find a 35 year old and I can get to anywhere I want?

 

[Dolan]

Well, Natca says you’re not entitled to a transfer. If that hypothetical happened, the hardship needed it more. I know a hardship where a person had a mom with MS, dad with early onset dementia, and a low functioning autistic brother back home. They hardshipped back to care for all 3. Can you say that your desire to be considered for a move outweighs this persons demonstrated need? Not everyone is gaming the system. Your anger should be at the union and the faa for this collusion, not at other controllers.

That's absolutely where my anger is placed. Read my post - I said I don't think any action should be taken against the scammers. It's the scamming behavior that's necessitated by NCEPT that is the reason why the system just doesn't work. If you're going to make NCEPT and A99 the ONLY ways to transfer then OF COURSE A99's are going to quadruple after NCEPT goes into effect (which they have).

So yeah, do what you have to do. Prison rules. If you're somewhere you don't like then go find a doctor and ask them to write you a letter of medical necessity due to allergies. If they refuse, find a new doctor. Repeat this process until you achieve desired results. I know someone who got 8 doctors in until they found the quack who helped them out and now they work at their dream facility. I'm a big believer that if a system doesn't work then the fastest way to get it fixed is to abuse the everliving shit out of it. It sucks to say but this is the state of things today.

 

[Bandit117]

That's absolutely where my anger is placed. Read my post - I said I don't think any action should be taken against the scammers. It's the scamming behavior that's necessitated by NCEPT that is the reason why the system just doesn't work. If you're going to make NCEPT and A99 the ONLY ways to transfer then OF COURSE A99's are going to quadruple after NCEPT goes into effect (which they have).

So yeah, do what you have to do. Prison rules. If you're somewhere you don't like then go find a doctor and ask them to write you a letter of medical necessity due to allergies. If they refuse, find a new doctor. Repeat this process until you achieve desired results. I know someone who got 8 doctors in until they found the quack who helped them out and now they work at their dream facility. I'm a big believer that if a system doesn't work then the fastest way to get it fixed is to abuse the everliving shit out of it. It sucks to say but this is the state of things today.

We agree, this reply was to someone else.

Even if someone outside the situation thinks an approved hardship is bogus, the faa and natca are the ones who sign off on it. If the faa won’t fix staffing, do what you gotta do to get where you want while staying on the boards. Supes are removing themselves from the operation which isn’t really what we need, from a top down view of things

 

[Dolan]

Even if someone outside the situation thinks an approved hardship is bogus, the faa and natca are the ones who sign off on it.

Kiiiiiind of.

If you get a legit, righetous letter from a doctor who knows how this stuff works the agency exposes themselves to substantial liability by trying to stand in the way. It's actually kind of self reinforcing because each instance of situation X that gets approved makes all future cases resembling X harder to fight for them.

 

[Bandit117]

Kiiiiiind of.

If you get a legit, righetous letter from a doctor who knows how this stuff works the agency exposes themselves to substantial liability by trying to stand in the way. It's actually kind of self reinforcing because each instance of situation X that gets approved makes all future cases resembling X harder to fight for them.

But That’s the rules. At the end of the faa, the faa and the natca hardship person for the region have to sign off on it. The faa can and does fight back against doctors letters

 

[kandyhart]

Same as almost every facility in the NAS. We’re at the bottom getting zero ERRs and zero academy grads. Losing to Sup bids, DOD, retirement etc. The FAA simply needs to hire more people. They’ve been under hiring for years and still under hiring today. Even if they hired 5000 controllers this year half would wash because of their stupid hiring practices.

I think this is true. The faa needs to hire more people but I think our job goes fairly unnoticed by the public eye. Most people think we hold the orange cones. I think natca should encourage an out reach program to high schools where local controllers volunteer their time to go talk to the youth and think that would soon have an impact on our numbers.

 

[MV1987]

I think this is true. The faa needs to hire more people but I think our job goes fairly unnoticed by the public eye. Most people think we hold the orange cones. I think natca should encourage an out reach program to high schools where local controllers volunteer their time to go talk to the youth and think that would soon have an impact on our numbers.

That's not the problem. Supposedly had 58k applications the last bid to hire only 1500 or less. That isn't enough to keep up with retirements, people quitting, wash outs etc.

 

[Mike Kilo]

That's not the problem. Supposedly had 58k applications the last bid to hire only 1500 or less. That isn't enough to keep up with retirements, people quitting, wash outs etc.

Exactly. Why would we go waste a high schoolers time when the competition on every bid is crazy. Let them find a real job with far more opportunities than a 2% chance of getting the job.

 

[Nothanks]

Exactly. Why would we go waste a high schoolers time when the competition on every bid is crazy. Let them find a real job with far more opportunities than a 2% chance of getting the job.

The outreach is actually a good idea. Ya there are massive amounts of people applying, and less than 1000 were well qualified. You want to hire people that can actually get certified.

 

[FightingIrish2012]

The outreach is actually a good idea. Ya there are massive amounts of people applying, and less than 1000 were well qualified. You want to hire people that can actually get certified.

How are you defining well qualified?

 

[Nothanks]

How are you defining well qualified?

I’m not defining. The agency does. Per your resume, and ATSA scores

 

[hpwjuicebox]

The outreach is actually a good idea. Ya there are massive amounts of people applying, and less than 1000 were well qualified. You want to hire people that can actually get certified.

My understanding is that best qual/well qual/and just regular ole qualified are just percentiles. Not a specific score.

 

[the inquirer]

I think this is true. The faa needs to hire more people but I think our job goes fairly unnoticed by the public eye. Most people think we hold the orange cones. I think natca should encourage an out reach program to high schools where local controllers volunteer their time to go talk to the youth and think that would soon have an impact on our numbers.

I don't think most people want to volunteer your time for outreach. If it was duty time, then yes, I think a lot of controllers like to talk about what they do. But working 6 days and having a family is hard is you want to be an active part of your kids' lives and spend time with your spouse.

 

[Mike Kilo]

The outreach is actually a good idea. Ya there are massive amounts of people applying, and less than 1000 were well qualified. You want to hire people that can actually get certified.

I guarantee you more than 1,000/58,000 are capable of doing this job well. I would never recommend anyone out of high school go to college for this purpose. There is zero reason. They should just apply after their four year degree or based on work experience. I guarantee no colleges are telling the kids they spout the CTI program to this information.

How would it affect our numbers if the FAA doesn’t hire more people? If they are just interested in aviation cool but it’s not going to make a difference.

 

[HurryUpandWait]

That's not the problem. Supposedly had 58k applications the last bid to hire only 1500 or less. That isn't enough to keep up with retirements, people quitting, wash outs etc.

The FAA needs to adjust their aviator tool because the washout/DQ percentage is too high with an applicant pool of 58,000