2nd Quarter 2017

[MJ]

Not necessarily true. I know of a facility that did not select ERRs due to bad recommendations from their ATM at their current facility. Because of the bad recommendation, the receiving facility manager ranked them low (or not at all) and they didn't get selected.

Rankings are, at most, a tie breaker. If the facility has slots to select people, they will be selected.

What do they mean when they say "cat 1 or 2 EXEMPT"? not sure what the exempt means. Apologize if this has already been discussed.

ERR
Has some answers to common questions.

I've gotten a hold of every previous managers rankings list except for the last NCEPT. No matter what the ATM recommends, if they have more slots available then ERRs, all will be given a TOL (assuming all are current CPCs and are still eligible by the time the NCEPT comes to that facility). It's humorous to see all the ATMs write things like "Insufficient experience" or "Failed background check" or simply rank candidates "1, 2, 99, 99", but all were offered a TOL. The main facility I saw that with was A80, but even then, I believe they were able to talk some of those controllers out of accepting their TOL.

A80s ATM has been doing that since the start, I admire his persistence in fighting the good fight

Also, the little +quote button at the bottom of posts adds the reply to multi quote, then use insert quotes to add them all to one post

 

[breakaway2000]

Also, the little +quote button at the bottom of posts adds the reply to multi quote, then use insert quotes to add them all to one post

Good stuff, thanks for the tip.

 

[corn4ahead]

Rankings are, at most, a tie breaker. If the facility has slots to select people, they will be selected.

Interesting...I don't understand then.
So here's a question.

Say my facility has 3 people who want to leave But there's only 2 facilities they want to go to.

2 CPCs have ERRs into facility A.
1 CPC has an ERR into Facility B.

Facility A is higher on the priority list than facility B and can select 10 people for example.

Facility B can also select 10 people but is lower on the priority list than facility A.

There losing facility can release 2 CPCs. Do both the controllers with ERRs into facility A get selected? Or is there a chance that the controller requesting facility B h"gets selected ahead of the 2nd controller requesting facility A?

Also, like I said before, I was told manager rankings play a big part in this so I don't see why this information is so secret! Like why can't they just come out and tell us exactly how they do it?

 

[Stinger]

Interesting...I don't understand then.
So here's a question.

Say my facility has 3 people who want to leave But there's only 2 facilities they want to go to.

2 CPCs have ERRs into facility A.
1 CPC has an ERR into Facility B.

Facility A is higher on the priority list than facility B and can select 10 people for example.

Facility B can also select 10 people but is lower on the priority list than facility A.

There losing facility can release 2 CPCs. Do both the controllers with ERRs into facility A get selected? Or is there a chance that the controller requesting facility B h"gets selected ahead of the 2nd controller requesting facility A?

Also, like I said before, I was told manager rankings play a big part in this so I don't see why this information is so secret! Like why can't they just come out and tell us exactly how they do it?

The 2 controllers applying for facility A would both go there, and the one for B would be left behind.
Actually, thinking it through now, I'm not sure. Say that facility A has 10 people all apply and get selected, but 3 of them also apply for B. Can facility priority change during selections? Where if facility A gets 7 people, would they get moved further down the prioirty list?
And now typing that out, it'd be impossible for the priority list to be that fluid.

Sticking with my answer....the 1 CPC doesn't go to facility B no matter what.

 

[MJ]

You know that game connect 4? It's like that. The facilities are the rows and the chips are CPCs. The first row gets filled until there's no more chips to put in or no more spaces, Then goes down to the second row. The only time anything else ever comes into play is if there are more chips than slots; then the ATM gets to say if they prefer the red chip or the blue chip. The panel makes the final decision though.

 

[Dontbotherme]

Our ATM says he literally has zero say in whether we receive someone or not. If you want to go somewhere and your facility is able to release you, you can go to almost any high level facility in the country. Just know that if it doesn't work out, you might not like the choices you receive from the NEST (minus C90/N90 because you'd go straight back to where you came from).

 

[breakaway2000]

You know that game connect 4? It's like that. The facilities are the rows and the chips are CPCs. The first row gets filled until there's no more chips to put in or no more spaces, Then goes down to the second row. The only time anything else ever comes into play is if there are more chips than slots; then the ATM gets to say if they prefer the red chip or the blue chip. The panel makes the final decision though.

100% can confirm this. The way it's written gives way to what Stinger was starting to describe, but it's not how it's applied.
Ex. If facility #4 needs 15 people and facility #5 also needs 15 people and let's say hypothetically 15 CPCs apply to both. All 15 would go to #4 and #5 would get 0.

 

[Spurline]

How about this scenario...Let's say 3 from a facility want to go to the same facility and they can only let one go. Does it go back to ATM rankings or date of ERR submission? I know there was some mention of date of ERR receipt in the MOU.

 

[breakaway2000]

How about this scenario...Let's say 3 from a facility want to go to the same facility and they can only let one go. Does it go back to ATM rankings or date of ERR submission? I know there was some mention of date of ERR receipt in the MOU.

From previous panels, I've seen 6 people from the same facility apply to a single facility (2 could go). They had less ERRs then slots available so the manager didn't rank them. With that scenario I'm all but certain based on the Q+A it went to the two who had their ERRs in the longest. I have yet to see a scenario like this...
10+ ERRs to a facility that could only accept a few with the manager selecting one person from Facility A and not the other.

Best guess from what I've seen... The NCEPT goes verbatim off a managers rankings list based on applicants who are still eligible. I'd guess if there are more slots then ERRs the NCEPT will select the individual who has had their ERR in the longest. If there are less slots then ERRs, the NCEPT will select based on how the manager ranked.

For the record, I went back and looked at the published Q+A, it is not in writing (unless I missed it). I did hear the ERR length tie-breaker discussed on the NCEPT Telcon after it was implemented and I believe MJ got the same information from his RVP.

 

[GO]

Riddle me this Batman....I recently CPC'd on January 13th but our facility still shows me in a training status, so how do we update our numbers? HR says that I won't see anything (eOPF, back pay, etc) until Feb 21 due to pay periods and such. With that said I am not sure if my information will process in time for this panel. If it shows me CPC we are above AOB and Estimated national averages (CAT2) and without my CPC status we are 1 over national average but under AOB percentage. A buddy and I would really like to be considered for this panel as facilities we would really want are actually in need right now. My ATM doesn't know if there is anyone to tell or not as he is fairly new as a manager. Anyway y'all have been helpful throughout this process so I didn't know if someone knew who to reach out to or if y'all thought it would update in time for this NCEPT meeting. Anyone else in this sort of predicament?

 

[MJ]

Riddle me this Batman....I recently CPC'd on January 13th but our facility still shows me in a training status, so how do we update our numbers? HR says that I won't see anything (eOPF, back pay, etc) until Feb 21 due to pay periods and such. With that said I am not sure if my information will process in time for this panel. If it shows me CPC we are above AOB and Estimated national averages (CAT2) and without my CPC status we are 1 over national average but under AOB percentage. A buddy and I would really like to be considered for this panel as facilities we would really want are actually in need right now. My ATM doesn't know if there is anyone to tell or not as he is fairly new as a manager. Anyway y'all have been helpful throughout this process so I didn't know if someone knew who to reach out to or if y'all thought it would update in time for this NCEPT meeting. Anyone else in this sort of predicament?

It has to be updated at the facility level. IE: it's your ATM's job. Might be delegated to someone else like the secretary though. They have to update the staffing workbook.

 

[GO]

It has to be updated at the facility level. IE: it's your ATM's job. Might be delegated to someone else like the secretary though. They have to update the staffing workbook.

Hmmm, we don't have a facility secretary just an FLM and the ATM. Maybe I will mention the workbook specifically and see what comes of it.

 

[breakaway2000]

Hmmm, we don't have a facility secretary just an FLM and the ATM. Maybe I will mention the workbook specifically and see what comes of it.

ATM is responsible, tell him to update the staffing workbook. All the NCEPT data syncs from that. Not to rain on your parade (because this process is awful), but if you're currently one under the AOB percentage (and not currently CAT 1 or CAT 2 exempt), when he updates it your facility would then be CAT 1 or CAT 2 exempt (still frozen).
Also, if there is a chance you could be eligible, he needs to update it prior to end of business on Monday. From personal experience if someone CPC's in between the ERR deadline and the panel meeting (that would push the facility to CAT 1 or CAT 2), the facility will not be looked at for the current panel.

 

[GO]

ATM is responsible, tell him to update the staffing workbook. All the NCEPT data syncs from that. Not to rain on your parade (because this process is awful), but if you're currently one under the AOB percentage (and not currently CAT 1 or CAT 2 exempt), when he updates it your facility would then be CAT 1 or CAT 2 exempt (still frozen).
Also, if there is a chance you could be eligible, he needs to update it prior to end of business on Monday. From personal experience if someone CPC's in between the ERR deadline and the panel meeting (that would push the facility to CAT 1 or CAT 2), the facility will not be looked at for the current panel.

Fair enough. Thanks for the information, just trying to get in the paperwork early but still have an expectation that it will take a while. I am willing to wait for the right time/place and can be patient. Without being cheesy I am just happy to have transitioned out of the military and CPC in the FAA in a timely manner. On the positive note there are three more trainees expected to certify in the next few months. Thanks again!

 

[breakaway2000]

Fair enough. Thanks for the information, just trying to get in the paperwork early but still have an expectation that it will take a while. I am willing to wait for the right time/place and can be patient. Without being cheesy I am just happy to have transitioned out of the military and CPC in the FAA in a timely manner. On the positive note there are three more trainees expected to certify in the next few months. Thanks again!

Sorry, didn't see you were from TWF when I initially replied. With a CPC target number of 9, being at 7 now, when he updates you guys to 8 you'll be considered CAT 2 exempt. Unfortunately no go this time around (unless they remove CAT 1/CAT 2 exempt status, which is a possibility). It's great you guys have 3 close to certifying. If they all certify, you should be able to release at least 2 (it looks like after two you'd then hit Cat 1/2 exempt because they have 1.0 down as retirement/other losses). Regardless, make sure he updates the staffing workbook on Monday in case they remove the CAT 1/2 exempt status this panel.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

CPC less than a month and already trying to leave... How times have changed!

 

[CaptainObvious]

CPC less than a month and already trying to leave... How times have changed!

With some of the other CPCs at my facility that dropped paperwork the day they got certified and getting picked up under the old process, it doesn't really seem like it's changed

 

[corn4ahead]

CPC less than a month and already trying to leave... How times have changed!

Most of us newly certified CPCs really didnt have much of a choice where we went. The older system at least let you pick states. So not many people went to where they want to be.

Also, with the new system, you have to get your paperwork in ASAP so can get in line to leave. It's not up to the ATM anymore unfortunately.

 

[GO]

Most of us newly certified CPCs really didnt have much of a choice where we went. The older system at least let you pick states. So not many people went to where they want to be.

Also, with the new system, you have to get your paperwork in ASAP so can get in line to leave. It's not up to the ATM anymore unfortunately.

^ THIS, plus facilities I would like to go to really need people right now and our staffing is such that two people can leave in the next few months. Why wouldn't I try at this point I figure? Either way though I am willing to wait a few years if that is what it takes but putting in my paperwork came at the direct recommendation of my FLM and ATM due to this new process.

 

[breakaway2000]

Most of us newly certified CPCs really didnt have much of a choice where we went. The older system at least let you pick states. So not many people went to where they want to be.

Also, with the new system, you have to get your paperwork in ASAP so can get in line to leave. It's not up to the ATM anymore unfortunately.

It's a shame that this is what it's come to, but hell even being a CPC for awhile, I've seen the writing on the wall and have "laid claim" to as many facilities as I can. I could careless if they're 50, 100, etc on the priority list now because once my facility is eligible they could be top 10, who knows. I understand the frustration of current CPC's getting jumped by newly certified controllers that want to go to a facility most others wouldn't ever go (especially if the difference is only a few spots on the list), but as long as you get your paperwork in 1st, a newly certified CPC can't jump you to go to the same facility.