3rd Quarter 2017

[Terry]

any idea when the list will come out as to what facilities can select (and how many) for 3rd quarter NCEPT?

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I personally think a cap is a decent idea. Albeit I have never worked at a low level facility. But as a high level tracon controller I frequently see people come in who are significantly above their abilities. They end of training for six months and then are terminated. Another three months before they leave. Perhaps a cap could help this.

However, at the same time every facility is different. Some low level facilities would have no issue going to a high level because of the type of traffic they currently work. In my opinion (based on very little) a low level VFR tower controller could more easily go to a high level tower because high level towers are very regulated, little pattern traffic, and relatively easy. So perhaps my opinion on caps applies more to radar facilities.

 

[Dolan]

In my opinion (based on very little) a low level VFR tower controller could more easily go to a high level tower because high level towers are very regulated, little pattern traffic, and relatively easy. So perhaps my opinion on caps applies more to radar facilities.

No I think you're right. The most difficult Local Control positions are always at VFR towers and always level 9 or below.

 

[Lvl8twr]

No I think you're right. The most difficult Local Control positions are always at VFR towers and always level 9 or below.

It's not local that they can't do, it's Ground Control that kicks their butt.

 

[Lvl8twr]

The problem with this is that it would prevent the high-level facilities from getting as many people as possible. The high level facilities are typically where controllers are needed most. In my opinion, if a level 4-6 controller wants to test his/her abilities at a high level facility, why not let them.

Because people like me have been waiting 8+ years to move from a level 8-9 to a higher level tower. So screw those that have already proved themselves with a complex and busy operation?

 

[breakaway2000]

I think a universal cap is ridiculous. There are really only a handful of facilities that a cap should be required and N90 and C90 are basically already doing that. Could you imagine a guy who wanted a 12 enroute but the FAA placed at a 5 up/down (prior to the new hiring process) who now has to move 3 times to get to a facility academy grads are being sent to? Can't see it ever happening...

 

[MJ]

if the hiring process and career progression were uniformly applied to everyone then caps would be appropriate. the fact that everyone starts off on uneven circumstances is really the only argument to make against it.

Which is why movement needs to be based mostly, if not completely, on merit instead of whatever arbitrary stat these clowns decide to use this month.

 

[Move78]

If they cap it universally I'll be crushed. Especially after seeing all the other guys that got their shot during this current open window. There are plenty of capable controllers at lower facilities. If they start to restrict movement by levels they should allow for some kind of subjectivity based on an ATM/FLM recommendation etc.
The logic is true that you might be wasting your time with possible garbage from a lower level but to stigmatize everyone based on facility level would certainly be a mistake. And not all lower levels are easy.

 

[Move78]

if the hiring process and career progression were uniformly applied to everyone then caps would be appropriate. the fact that everyone starts off on uneven circumstances is really the only argument to make against it.

Which is why movement needs to be based mostly, if not completely, on merit instead of whatever arbitrary stat these clowns decide to use this month.

Has anyone spoken out about the Prev Exp bids circumventing the ERR process. I've seen new hires offered S46 and SCT etc. right from the get go. Seems unfair to put new people at places like that when the line of current controllers to get in there is a mile long.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Has anyone spoken out about the Prev Exp bids circumventing the ERR process. I've seen new hires offered S46 and SCT etc. right from the get go. Seems unfair to put new people at places like that when the line of current controllers to get in there is a mile long.

But...but...

They deserve it because they worked at XXX military facility that is so busy.

I worked at a busy military facility and felt a level 7 was perfect to learn the FAA side

 

[MJ]

They go to those facilities because the hiring, placement, and transfer process has been utter garbage. With all the artificial restrictions they create on the qualified workforce, they have no way to keep staffing up at higher facilities without stuffing them with new hires.

It's not all great for the prior exp hires. The majority still go to low levels... not like a couple years ago where anyone who ever stepped foot into a radar room got sent to SCT and D10. Not only do they go to low levels, they're pretty much guaranteed to go to low level terminals, while all the people who are hired ots are getting sent to centers.

Getting the people who have already proven themselves and are qualified employees who put in the time into the facilities that need them should be the priority, and backfill with new people, and not the other way around as it is with the current process.

 

[Move78]

They go to those facilities because the hiring, placement, and transfer process has been utter garbage. With all the artificial restrictions they create on the qualified workforce, they have no way to keep staffing up at higher facilities without stuffing them with new hires.

It's not all great for the prior exp hires. The majority still go to low levels... not like a couple years ago where anyone who ever stepped foot into a radar room got sent to SCT and D10. Not only do they go to low levels, they're pretty much guaranteed to go to low level terminals, while all the people who are hired its are getting sent to centers.

Getting the people who have already proven themselves and are qualified employees who put in the time into the facilities that need them should be the priority, and backfill with new people, and not the other way around as it is with the current process.

So how do we address this? Seems like a big deal.

 

[James]

They were stopped from going to places like that because they were told by those facilities to stop sending them because they weren't doing well. Meanwhile, at I90, where those people probably could do well, they won't send them.

 

[GO]

any idea when the list will come out as to what facilities can select (and how many) for 3rd quarter NCEPT?

I am curious about this as well. Figured they must be reformatting all the information with the new CAT Exempt status being removed and the decision to fill lower facilities to 100% or something because it has been well over a month yet still nothing.

 

[GO]

They go to those facilities because the hiring, placement, and transfer process has been utter garbage. With all the artificial restrictions they create on the qualified workforce, they have no way to keep staffing up at higher facilities without stuffing them with new hires.

It's not all great for the prior exp hires. The majority still go to low levels... not like a couple years ago where anyone who ever stepped foot into a radar room got sent to SCT and D10. Not only do they go to low levels, they're pretty much guaranteed to go to low level terminals, while all the people who are hired ots are getting sent to centers.

Getting the people who have already proven themselves and are qualified employees who put in the time into the facilities that need them should be the priority, and backfill with new people, and not the other way around as it is with the current process.

I was in this lower level boat and as was a friend of mine. I went to a level 5, he a level 6 with multiple facility ratings, deployment and supervisory "CIC" ratings.

 

[Andrew]

I am curious about this as well. Figured they must be reformatting all the information with the new CAT Exempt status being removed and the decision to fill lower facilities to 100% or something because it has been well over a month yet still nothing.

I'm hoping at the end of the month, it's gotta be before the err deadline imo.

 

[GO]

I'm hoping at the end of the month, it's gotta be before the err deadline imo.

You'd think...

 

[MJ]

I was in this lower level boat and as was a friend of mine. I went to a level 5, he a level 6 with multiple facility ratings, deployment and supervisory "CIC" ratings.

Yeah, and that's how it should be. The thing that needs to change is once you get CPC, you should be able to gtfo relatively fast, and the next guy takes your spot behind you instead of infront of you.

I'm hoping at the end of the month, it's gotta be before the err deadline imo.

They've only been putting out the lists right before the panel. For the category status it's pretty easy to figure out, but you don't have to because I put it on the facility's staffing sheet
The available slots have been tricky in the past to estimate, but it should be easier now with the changes. I'll add it to my to do list and try to post that info as well.

 

[corn4ahead]

Have you guys not seen the new list format on the KSN site? They no longer use Microsoft Word. There's a link in the top of the page that has a current list of facility priority and how many controllers eligible to release/gain. It's all consolidated into one.

 

[GO]

Have you guys not seen the new list format on the KSN site? They no longer use Microsoft Word. There's a link in the top of the page that has a current list of facility priority and how many controllers eligible to release/gain. It's all consolidated into one.

Haven't seen it, been on baby leave so no faa computer access lately. Am more curious of priority ranking so that would be nice to see