I thought in NEST you couldn't go any higher than your highest facility checkout...
So if a 5 only goes to a 12 and washes, they can't go any higher than 5 again, no?
3rd Quarter 2017
- Thread starter MJ
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I thought in NEST you couldn't go any higher than your highest facility checkout...
So if a 5 only goes to a 12 and washes, they can't go any higher than 5 again, no?
Dontbotherme
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That's supposed to be how it works, but it doesn't at all. Lower level failures here have been assigned places like BNA when they came from level 6/7 facilities.
Mike Kilo
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One of the NCEPT union reps told a co worker it is run the day of. I can only assume it is by the randomness of selections that contradict the numbers we all have. I'm in the same boat as your facility. I applied to many facilities at the top of the list, and was selected by the very last one that should have been able to select. And those high facilities all got level 5/6 people. I suppose there is a chance that they chose fives over my co workers and I, but last round one of them had me ranked 1. I can't imagine it changing that drastically.
breakaway2000
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Thanks!
Absolutely not. Your list of facilities offered depends on how you did in training where you washed out. If you go to A80 and get every single scope but your last one, you'll get your pick of some of the most sought-after places in the NAS
Sidewinder133
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Serious question:
Centers have always been labeled as "built to train". You have academy grads with no experience going to each center respectively, and most of these centers demonstrate high success rates. Keyword most. With all that being said, do you believe it's a lack equipment/material/time/etc to give a large TRACON the resources to check someone out w/o prior experience? Or is it simply the aptitude required to get the job done on the controllers part that is lacking?
@Robertb , but anyone with experience is welcome to answer.
Centers have always been labeled as "built to train". You have academy grads with no experience going to each center respectively, and most of these centers demonstrate high success rates. Keyword most. With all that being said, do you believe it's a lack equipment/material/time/etc to give a large TRACON the resources to check someone out w/o prior experience? Or is it simply the aptitude required to get the job done on the controllers part that is lacking?
@Robertb , but anyone with experience is welcome to answer.
SOUnds like it could be gamed to work to your advantage. lol. Oh man. This NCEPT garbage just keeps getting worse.
wikdevo
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I don't think they belong there at all.. hell we have 5 up/down controllers come here to a 7 up/down and can't hack it.
i wish that the err process was based off of how good a controller you are but it's not anymore and this is the shit we have to deal with.
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Look at it this way: There's always September. And December. And March. And June.
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I don't work at a super large TRACON but from my perspective it's all about being able to be safe and efficient. You cannot be either one or the other, you have to have that balance.
It really comes down to being able to apply rules and be able to think quick and some people just can't do it. Centers have vast amounts of airspace while at the TRACON a bunch of metal is converging to a particular point and you've gotta work it out with compressing airspace.
That being said, in the final, if you don't run them tight but safe you will get the yank. At the busy places if you're running 5+ mi gaps between arrivals where there's no wake involved, and your final is backed out 30+ miles, you have to tighten that shit up or they will put someone in who can. It's not uncommon to get certed on all positions and wash out in the final. Also, final is all technique based, the right way to work final is one that is safe and efficient. However way you do that is one you have to find for yourself. You always hear "you can't teach technique." That makes the OJT process difficult for trainee AND trainer.
Just my $0.02 from a 9 TRACON controller.
I guess the bright-side of this latest board was I90, HCF and LAX (some of the bigger facilities being filled). I talked to my FLM last week and he told me we were 2 over national average in May and then just below in June. The two spots were already spoken for by people leaving/retiring. But out pickup numbers don't reflect that. THey make it seem we are alot worse than that.
I thought the NCEPT was supposed to be more transparent than it actually is. The algorithm/formula they're seems to be ever changing. If this next September board doesn't keep showing progress, might be time for NATCA to replace Lebovidge with someone that actually gives a fuck.
EDIT - for completion.
I thought the NCEPT was supposed to be more transparent than it actually is. The algorithm/formula they're seems to be ever changing. If this next September board doesn't keep showing progress, might be time for NATCA to replace Lebovidge with someone that actually gives a fuck.
EDIT - for completion.
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They have to continually change it because it's fundamentally flawed. In 6-9 months there will be another major change in order to keep the process from grinding to a halt because this most recent band aid will fail.
Elections are in about 12 months...
Mike Kilo
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That was fast!
Sidewinder133
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Ye, just got mine as well.
Dontbotherme
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This may come off the wrong way (pompous/egotistical), but you don't go to high level approach facilities to learn to do air traffic. You go to high level approach facilities to perfect air traffic based on your own ability. If you're showing up here without knowing separation rules, an understanding of how to appropriately apply speed control, how to build gaps, how to hit gaps, how to hold gaps, how to work a frequency so there is little frequency congestion, etc. there isn't enough time or resources to teach you everything you need to know.
breakaway2000
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Sidewinder133
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Well, we had two people who had ERRs into LAX. One of which got one, the other didn't. I got ZTL which was lower than LAX. So, I would assume that means the other guy was passed over.
