August (Q4) 2023

bravounite33 said:
Yeah I know 1 that quit to go fly instead but otherwise nope. Not sure if it’s just because I’m at a high level facility so everyone here transferred in, no one was placed here. I only know people at lower facilities that are local but haven’t heard of any of them having people quite either. Not doubting it’s happening, but just surprised if it’s really a quantifiable amount or just a handful (that shouldn’t matter because the FAA would have hired people already…) but I digress
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Clearly you are at a desirable facility where you won’t see it. But you are one facility out of what….315? Happens more than you think
 
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I know 7, including myself, that quit between 2018-2022. 5 are back in at different facilities, 1 waiting on background from prior bid and the last found a sweet non atc gig. It happens more than you think and will continue to happen as people aren’t ok with being unhappy with no light at the end of the tunnel.
 
ajmezz said:
I know 7, including myself, that quit between 2018-2022. 5 are back in at different facilities, 1 waiting on background from prior bid and the last found a sweet non atc gig. It happens more than you think and will continue to happen as people aren’t ok with being unhappy with no light at the end of the tunnel.
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That was also during the golden reinstatement years. That’s changed now and far more restrictive. How many would have left under todays rules?

I know two who quit to go pursue the private sector careers only to return back to a previous facility. I don’t know any out of four facilities who quit all together. If I had a commercial pilots license I think I would definitely bail though lol.
 
Mike Kilo said:
That was also during the golden reinstatement years. That’s changed now and far more restrictive. How many would have left under todays rules?

I know two who quit to go pursue the private sector careers only to return back to a previous facility. I don’t know any out of four facilities who quit all together. If I had a commercial pilots license I think I would definitely bail though lol.
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True, they really slammed the door and welded it shut on reinstatement. The prior exp lists are pretty solid though depending on your experience. One of the people I know had some level 8’s and 9’s. Probably due to his contract tower(s) bc he was only at a 6 up/down in the faa previously. Could still be worth it depending on how unhappy you are. Sometimes it’s just a change of facility that makes a difference, even if same level.
 
jfol said:
Low level academy placement facility checking in… 3 DOD transfers from CPCs in the last 8 months. 2 contracts, 1 priority bid and numerous hardships in the last year. Not including the absolute garbage wash outs from the academy. Controlling traffic here isn’t hard but nobody is going to wait for NATCA/FAA to finally give shit. We haven’t seen 85% in over 5 years and this is low level kindergarten of ATC. When your facility CPC number is so small, people see the writing on the walls and if you play by the NCEPT rules you will be fucked forever. This place is forever a black hole until shit changes.
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Yeah the people at the top have no clue and treat the lower level facilities like peasants
 
In honor of the ERR submission deadline closing, I just thought I'd pop in and say I can't wait to see how bad this panels' rules are. Based on the most recent PPT numbers, there are only 99 possible losses in the system, not considering possible losses from facilities where no one has ERRs submitted. You have to think they are going to run very similar rules to last time to maximize the amount of movement while simultaneously handicapping the facilities that are most in need again.
 
Acquired Taste said:
In honor of the ERR submission deadline closing, I just thought I'd pop in and say I can't wait to see how bad this panels' rules are. Based on the most recent PPT numbers, there are only 99 possible losses in the system, not considering possible losses from facilities where no one has ERRs submitted. You have to think they are going to run very similar rules to last time to maximize the amount of movement while simultaneously handicapping the facilities that are most in need again.
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Either the current % or projected % mins to release need to lower
 
Acquired Taste said:
In honor of the ERR submission deadline closing, I just thought I'd pop in and say I can't wait to see how bad this panels' rules are. Based on the most recent PPT numbers, there are only 99 possible losses in the system, not considering possible losses from facilities where no one has ERRs submitted. You have to think they are going to run very similar rules to last time to maximize the amount of movement while simultaneously handicapping the facilities that are most in need again.
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I kinda like the new draft system. You give more hope to people that are trying to transfer to a specific place that has an opening. Instead of having to balance where you want with the PPT. And for lower level facilities, it allows ERRs to transfer in easily, instead of wasting a dozen transfers on SCT or whatever flavor of the quarter.
 
Soul_Controller said:
I kinda like the new draft system. You give more hope to people that are trying to transfer to a specific place that has an opening. Instead of having to balance where you want with the PPT. And for lower level facilities, it allows ERRs to transfer in easily, instead of wasting a dozen transfers on SCT or whatever flavor of the quarter.
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Yeah, the last panel's rules were super awesome for people trying to make lateral, low level moves since there were openings at nearly every facility and the chances the guy you were competing against was going to be ranked number 1 out of 50 at DFW were a lot lower than the chances you would be ranked number 1 out of 2 at ICT. However, it was a very bad system for addressing staffing inadequacies at large terminal facilities that need a lot of bodies, don't receive AGs, and have a small pool to choose from, like SCT, NCT, A80, EWR, LAX, etc...
 
They just need to put in a 4 level cap for transfers. That way mid level fac’s get fresh bodies and those more experienced can transfer up. As it stands now these high level fac’s bitch bc they don’t get people or the people they get are from low levels. A cap should put all of that to bed.

Also, to keep people moving with the above process, change the panels so one is for lower levels to move up to mids, next panel is for mids to high.
 
ajmezz said:
They just need to put in a 4 level cap for transfers. That way mid level fac’s get fresh bodies and those more experienced can transfer up. As it stands now these high level fac’s bitch bc they don’t get people or the people they get are from low levels. A cap should put all of that to bed.

Also, to keep people moving with the above process, change the panels so one is for lower levels to move up to mids, next panel is for mids to high.
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Why should someone be punished for getting terminal assigned to them versus someone who got put into a center right away?
 
Acquired Taste said:
Yeah, the last panel's rules were super awesome for people trying to make lateral, low level moves since there were openings at nearly every facility and the chances the guy you were competing against was going to be ranked number 1 out of 50 at DFW were a lot lower than the chances you would be ranked number 1 out of 2 at ICT. However, it was a very bad system for addressing staffing inadequacies at large terminal facilities that need a lot of bodies, don't receive AGs, and have a small pool to choose from, like SCT, NCT, A80, EWR, LAX, etc...
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Why would you include LAX? They've let people ERR out recently. Any current issues are due to ncept transfers. You can't keep screaming for more people while simultaneously releasing cpcs...
 
Dolan said:
Why would you include LAX? They've let people ERR out recently. Any current issues are due to ncept transfers. You can't keep screaming for more people while simultaneously releasing cpcs...
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I included LAX as well as EWR because even though both have released in recent panels, they are both currently projected less than 75%. LAX needs 8 gains to get to the national average while EWR needs 5. It's hard to do when the rules of the past panel gave LAX 2 and EWR 1 body that had cat 2 releases that can be held at their facility for a year before arriving at the new one.

I have long argued that level 10+ facilities are more critical to the NAS and should have higher release criteria on ncept since they are typically more desirable facilities anyway and people are compensated much more than there low level counterparts. Now with these recent releases and new draft style rules, these facilities are going to be short for a very long time.
 
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Acquired Taste said:
I included LAX as well as EWR because even though both have released in recent panels, they are both currently projected less than 75%. LAX needs 8 gains to get to the national average while EWR. It's hard to do when the rules of the past panel gave LAX 2 and EWR 1 body that had cat 2 releases that can be held at their facility for a year before arriving at the new one.

I have long argued that level 10+ facilities are more critical to the NAS and should have higher release criteria on ncept since they are typically more desirable facilities anyway and people are compensated much more than there low level counterparts. Now with these recent releases and new draft style rules, these facilities are going to be short for a very long time.
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Absolutely.

ajmezz said:
They just need to put in a 4 level cap for transfers. That way mid level fac’s get fresh bodies and those more experienced can transfer up. As it stands now these high level fac’s bitch bc they don’t get people or the people they get are from low levels. A cap should put all of that to bed.

Also, to keep people moving with the above process, change the panels so one is for lower levels to move up to mids, next panel is for mids to high.
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F it. Let’s all go management
 
Dolan said:
Why would you include LAX? They've let people ERR out recently. Any current issues are due to ncept transfers. You can't keep screaming for more people while simultaneously releasing cpcs...
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Five out on ERRs in the last two years, two out for internal TMC jobs, one down medical to internal SSS job, two internal to OS jobs, one external to OS job. So yes NCEPT but also management giving themselves deviations left and right. Also a few people out on part time details which hurts staffing, and thus lots of OT for everyone.

Not sure how desirable LAX will be anymore now that we are ATC-11 😔
 
BigEggplant said:
Five out on ERRs in the last two years, two out for internal TMC jobs, one down medical to internal SSS job, two internal to OS jobs, one external to OS job. So yes NCEPT but also management giving themselves deviations left and right. Also a few people out on part time details which hurts staffing, and thus lots of OT for everyone.

Not sure how desirable LAX will be anymore now that we are ATC-11 😔
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Yeah that's a shitload of movement for a place that had their own MOU that could bypass ncept releases just a couple years ago. Not to mention that some of those NCEPT releases have been to one of the most coveted towers in the NAS.

I think it'll be pretty desirable since locally it competes with TOA, SMO, VNY, BUR.
 

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