February (Q2) 2023

[CGUTY]

I want to believe you and so I have to ask the question. Where do you see that at (90%)? The rules that came out says 85%.


Is this what you are going off of?

 

[Acquired Taste]

View attachment 8277
Is this what you are going off of?

Yes. Also if you want to see what everyone can gain, go to the official ppt and manually adjust the national to 90% and it will be reflected in the possible losses column.

 

[Move78]

Pretty sure if you achieve a tower cert, they will offer the low level tower-only places. You won’t know your list until you get your list though. You can check the NCEPT PPTs to gauge what you might get though. Anything under on staffing and under on training usually will be seen. You can probably expect the places nobody particularly tries to go to (Nantucket, Napa, etc).

NCEPT is one of many staffing instruments that uses the PPT. PPTs are not NCEPT

I have no idea lol As far as I know it will be a lvl 4 or 5 VFR Tower only facility, I will get a list to choose from but, nobody knows when I'll get the list. The deadline to put my paperwork in was Monday, which was completed, from there all I have been able to get is that on Feb 8th is the next selection. I'm just trying to find information on how the NEST process works. I'm not being fired from the agency and I'm not being moved to FSS, just that I was going to be transferred to a VFR Tower only. This is all that has been told to me by the TRB and management.

You can pull up the TCIP in the aap portal. AAP.FAA.gov and it’ll show you what your tower is worth for Facility Pay Level. It displays the tower and tracon CIs individually as well as the combined CI.

Well it doesn’t mean that it won’t work out for you, but “management” fed you a line of shit since they have no barring on what the NEST will do, and the TRB people are a step prior to that and also have no bearing on NEST decisions.

Hopefully you get a level four tower but it’s no guarantee since most stand alone level four towers are busier then a level five up/down tower.

You were also advised poorly to rush to get the paperwork in for this panel. Opportunities for retention are usually done on a quasi first come first served basis for people of equal qualifications based on when the paperwork was submitted for that NEST panel. So it would have been better to wait a week and be the first guy submitted to the next panel not the last guy for this one.

I wish you had better people guiding you through this process but it seems like the Fac Rep either doesn’t care or is totally oblivious to how it works.

Most don’t understand NEST. It is worth noting however that the first come first serve thing (ridiculous) has been mitigated a bit since they now offer every single facility, in the negotiated range, that’s less than 100 projected. So everyone’s lists are huge so the likelyhood of multiple people ranking the same facility 1 (and that facility only having 1 vacancy) is atleast less than it used to be. But yes this post is correct it’s better to be first not last and they rushed him to be last…
Also if there’s 30 people in the nest panel, for example, not all of them will have washed out of a 5 up/down whose tower may be a 4 so you’re not necessarily competing with all 30.

 

[kombucha23]

NCEPT is one of many staffing instruments that uses the PPT. PPTs are not NCEPT

I was referring to the PPT NCEPT would be using for this upcoming panel since it’s the easiest to find and most up to date, but thanks.

 

[ajmezz]

Couple dream spots are available this time around for someone. Only 163 possible losses throughout the NAS. Some spots I noticed that don't usually take many are:

FACILITY	GAINS IN ROUND 1
CLT	6
A90	5
DFW	4
I90	4
PBI	4
PCT	4
ATL	3
DEN	2
P50	2
S46	2
SEA	2
RDU	1

All of the 12s can take at least 1 in round 1. All of the 8s and 9s can gain in round 2 except for SFB and FFZ.

I’d have to recheck but I think there’s more than those 2 that can’t select in round 2. Assuming they stick by the projected below 90% rule they put out.

 

[Acquired Taste]

I’d have to recheck but I think there’s more than those 2 that can’t select in round 2. Assuming they stick by the projected below 90% rule they put outout

They're staffing level 8-9 up to 100% in round 2. SFB and FFZ are the only 8-9s projected above 100%.

 

[ajmezz]

They're staffing level 8-9 up to 100% in round 2. SFB and FFZ are the only 8-9s projected above 100%.

The rules posted say “must be below 90% projected” and then “staffing up to 100% projected.” Wouldn’t that mean they can’t select if they’re above 90%? Maybe my tired brain isn’t understanding it correctly.

 

[Bama]

The rules posted say “must be below 90% projected” and then “staffing up to 100% projected.” Wouldn’t that mean they can’t select if they’re above 90%? Maybe my tired brain isn’t understanding it correctly.

This is how I took it too.

 

[Acquired Taste]

The rules posted say “must be below 90% projected” and then “staffing up to 100% projected.” Wouldn’t that mean they can’t select if they’re above 90%? Maybe my tired brain isn’t understanding it correctly.

It has to be an oversight by whoever wrote the rules because if not, no one would select in round 2 since they are going to staff everyone to 90% in round 1. That's how I'm understanding it which makes the most sense to me.

 

[I'mNotRoger]

Well it doesn’t mean that it won’t work out for you, but “management” fed you a line of shit since they have no barring on what the NEST will do, and the TRB people are a step prior to that and also have no bearing on NEST decisions.

Hopefully you get a level four tower but it’s no guarantee since most stand alone level four towers are busier then a level five up/down tower.

You were also advised poorly to rush to get the paperwork in for this panel. Opportunities for retention are usually done on a quasi first come first served basis for people of equal qualifications based on when the paperwork was submitted for that NEST panel. So it would have been better to wait a week and be the first guy submitted to the next panel not the last guy for this one.

I wish you had better people guiding you through this process but it seems like the Fac Rep either doesn’t care or is totally oblivious to how it works.

There was a pretty consistent leak of knowledge from everyone on all of this. I kept asking questions and not getting answers, which is how I landed here looking for answers

Most don’t understand NEST. It is worth noting however that the first come first serve thing (ridiculous) has been mitigated a bit since they now offer every single facility, in the negotiated range, that’s less than 100 projected. So everyone’s lists are huge so the likelyhood of multiple people ranking the same facility 1 (and that facility only having 1 vacancy) is atleast less than it used to be. But yes this post is correct it’s better to be first not last and they rushed him to be last…
Also if there’s 30 people in the nest panel, for example, not all of them will have washed out of a 5 up/down whose tower may be a 4 so you’re not necessarily competing with all 30.

Thank you for the help and explaining it. I asked a lot of questions and was not really given answers. Or, given different answers about a question from the same person. I kept getting the run around on stuff and still haven't gotten answers on other stuff.

Well it doesn’t mean that it won’t work out for you, but “management” fed you a line of shit since they have no barring on what the NEST will do, and the TRB people are a step prior to that and also have no bearing on NEST decisions.

Hopefully you get a level four tower but it’s no guarantee since most stand alone level four towers are busier then a level five up/down tower.

You were also advised poorly to rush to get the paperwork in for this panel. Opportunities for retention are usually done on a quasi first come first served basis for people of equal qualifications based on when the paperwork was submitted for that NEST panel. So it would have been better to wait a week and be the first guy submitted to the next panel not the last guy for this one.

I wish you had better people guiding you through this process but it seems like the Fac Rep either doesn’t care or is totally oblivious to how it works.

Nobody explained any of this process to me or has been able to answer any of my questions. Thanks for the help and advice here though!

 

[Soul70726]

The rules posted say “must be below 90% projected” and then “staffing up to 100% projected.” Wouldn’t that mean they can’t select if they’re above 90%? Maybe my tired brain isn’t understanding it correctly.

You know, other said this must be a mistake. I used to subscribe to the concept of never assume it’s malice when incompetence is more likely. With the faa and natca at this point I assume it’s malice until proven other wise. To many times it has been actual malice to let it slide any more. So my thought is it’s written that way just to limit numbers and cause more confusion.

 

[A lil VFR]

Does anybody know when the decision lens usually gets updated?

 

[Phanatical]

Does anybody know when the decision lens usually gets updated?

It’s supposed to be today but it looks like it will be delayed.

 

[rhombus]

What they should really do is switch Rounds 1 and 2. Give the 4-7 people a chance to go to the 8-9's before the rest of the NAS is processed. It gives those at low pay facilities a better chance to move up while addressing the black hole level 8 and 9's. Or maybe tweak the decision lens tool to bias towards facilities that have poor demand and poor staffing. Or just start sending academy grads to 8's and 9's again. It's good to see NCEPT evolving a bit but it still feels like they're just polishing a ball of shit

 

[32andBelow]

What they should really do is switch Rounds 1 and 2. Give the 4-7 people a chance to go to the 8-9's before the rest of the NAS is processed. It gives those at low pay facilities a better chance to move up while addressing the black hole level 8 and 9's. Or maybe tweak the decision lens tool to bias towards facilities that have poor demand and poor staffing. Or just start sending academy grads to 8's and 9's again. It's good to see NCEPT evolving a bit but it still feels like they're just polishing a ball of shit

Why do they even need a panel? Why can’t the 8-9 just select someone with a transfer into their facility whenever they want? Like every other agency in the feds. There’s lots of center controllers that want to get CTOs but there’s no go process to do that besides a whole career change. What if they did like 3-5 year contracts with return rights for these harder to staff towers?

 

[EndlessCore]

Facility Priority List is up, showing February 2023, but it doesn't seem to be aligning with the 90% cutoff for gaining facilities

 

[CGUTY]

Are you able to post the list? Our ksn access here has been pending for a year

 

[Papacharlie327]

This is why Human Resources fucks up all the time. They are trying to dial this shit in.

 

[XX]

Facility Priority List is up, showing February 2023, but it doesn't seem to be aligning with the 90% cutoff for gaining facilities

Seems to be aligning with the national average % to target. Not the 90% to target stated in the rules and modifications.

 

[ncssailor]

Can the PPT be amended and changed after it was locked on 1/25 For this next panel?
We are showing releasable based on the Official but someone dropped the ball on SWB so we technically are not showing accurate data, does that sound like a grievance if they change it?