May (Q3) 2023

[ZO]

Not crying at all...experience needs to come into play at some point and I obviously have more experience. Also as far as NATCA is concerned I have been paying dues for 20 years, why would the union rank someone higher that hasn't " done their time"? These are questions not crying. I have been blessed for sure at my facilities.

Maybe the facility didn't want to spend a year training someone who will likely retire in a handful. Less ROI than the level 5 who likely has a decade plus to offer the facility. Idk ask the manager who ranked you.

 

[Acquired Taste]

Are you sending these to your NCEPT rep, or just posting here on the internet with hopes that they read it?

Discussion here is fine, but communicate with those that represent you if you have an idea and want it heard.

They don't give af what a little peon like myself has to say. I know they read these forums too so it's not like they're unaware of the discontent with the ncept process, hence why they made the tweaks. However, they're on full time detail making the big bucks to come up with rules to better the entire system and this is what they came up with? I don't have access to as much data as they do but I could make a better set of rules in an hour than they come up with using what I do have and I have the foresight to tell you exactly how it's going to affect the selections. That's why I have been criticizing these rules since they came out.

 

[Move78]

Basic Rankings ??? How would someone with level 5 experience rank higher than someone with level 11 and 12..no I'm not "crying" just dont understand the process I guess

No I just mean it’s not a process thing. You’re complaining about rankings. If you apply for any position anywhere in any job and the manager filling the position wants someone else then that’s who they take

 

[TT4019]

Basic Rankings ??? How would someone with level 5 experience rank higher than someone with level 11 and 12..no I'm not "crying" just dont understand the process I guess

Probably don’t want to invest time time in someone who’s going to bounce in a couple years. And sound to me like you’re crying.

 

[Move78]

They don't give af what a little peon like myself has to say. I know they read these forums too so it's not like they're unaware of the discontent with the ncept process, hence why they made the tweaks. However, they're on full time detail making the big bucks to come up with rules to better the entire system and this is what they came up with? I don't have access to as much data as they do but I could make a better set of rules in an hour than they come up with using what I do have and I have the foresight to tell you exactly how it's going to affect the selections. That's why I have been criticizing these rules since they came out.

Do you think the adjustment for this panel makes it worse?

 

[32andBelow]

The FAA literally has controllers fighting with each other to distract from how bad ncept is. They also got controllers wishing their coworkers got downgraded and therefor paycuts

 

[AB19]

The FAA literally has controllers fighting with each other to distract from how bad ncept is. They also got controllers wishing their coworkers got downgraded and therefor paycuts

The boot doesn’t lick itself

 

[MrCheddar]

le sigh ..... time to rage drink

 

[Acquired Taste]

Do you think the adjustment for this panel makes it worse?

For staffing of the NAS as a whole, yes. Once again, I'm all for maximizing movement but you have to balance it. Prioritize the top facilities but introduce dynamic selection caps so SCT doesn't get 20 bodies and then D10 gets 2. Have a round 2 where maybe SCT, NCT, D10, and A80 get their top 5. Then the big towers get their top 3. Then you you focus on the 8s and 9s. And after all of that, then you can maximize movement to the 7s and below.

Under this current set of rules, it meant that the level 6 tower that was 99.9% projected with a cpc target of 11 and was ranked 300 on the priority list deserved to get someone more than a big tracon with a 100+ cpc target deserved to get a second person. These rules worked really well for people at places that were well staffed country clubs that no one wanted to leave. It allowed 3 HOU guys the opportunity to get to DFW/IAH. 2 SFB guys to get to F11. 2 FLL guys to go to MCO and IAH. It let the rich get richer while hindering movement to places that have shit staffing that just got shittier.

 

[CaptainObvious]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Your seniority is too high is probably a factor. Sorry man, sucks getting passed over

 

[Papacharlie327]

This is the stupidest fucking system on earth

Your seniority is too high is probably a factor. Sorry man, sucks getting passed over

If this is true this guy should at least get to throat punch the rep

 

[HurryUpandWait]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Good for the level 5 getting a chance to move up

 

[HurryUpandWait]

Is someone going to post the list for the peeps on their RDO

 

[hpwjuicebox]

Is someone going to post the list for the peeps on their RDO

It’s in this thread somewhere. Set down the bottle and search a few pages back.

 

[hpwjuicebox]

When’s the next panel? Need to know the deadline to get 25 people checked out so I can leave.

 

[bravounite33]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

If you weren't picked up, then ORD didn't have you ranked above other people so when their time to select came up, someone ORD ranked higher on their list was chosen instead. I'm not sure what their facility priority order was this panel but IAH could only lose 1 person as well and they went to I90. If I90 was a higher priority over ORD, then you wouldn't have even been able to be selected for ORD anyways. If you actually want to go to ORD, just keep that ERR in. IAH picked up 4 people this panel, you guys are in a much better place than a lot of facilities so you aren't catching much sympathy from me.

 

[ATC123]

Basic Rankings ??? How would someone with level 5 experience rank higher than someone with level 11 and 12..no I'm not "crying" just dont understand the process I guess


Not crying at all...experience needs to come into play at some point and I obviously have more experience. Also as far as NATCA is concerned I have been paying dues for 20 years, why would the union rank someone higher that hasn't " done their time"? These are questions not crying. I have been blessed for sure at my facilities.

Don't worry, 3 more years and you'll be able to A124 your way out of IAH!

Or keep trying and maybe put in some face time with the ATM/FacRep to get ranked ahead of such inferior Lvl 5's. MLI is local-ish so it's quite possible they ranked this person high for a reason (had built a rapport, etc).

Also, since you're blaming it on the NCEPT process...let's apply this scenario to the pre-NCEPT process. You submit ERR to ORD. MLI person submits ERR to ORD. ATM likes MLI person and has a rapport so selects MLI person. Or ORD calls your IAH ATM and your IAH ATM says "I won't release him til 2027!" and so ORD ATM selects MLI person, and any of another 100 possibilities...

For staffing of the NAS as a whole, yes. Once again, I'm all for maximizing movement but you have to balance it. Prioritize the top facilities but introduce dynamic selection caps so SCT doesn't get 20 bodies and then D10 gets 2. Have a round 2 where maybe SCT, NCT, D10, and A80 get their top 5. Then the big towers get their top 3. Then you you focus on the 8s and 9s. And after all of that, then you can maximize movement to the 7s and below.

Under this current set of rules, it meant that the level 6 tower that was 99.9% projected with a cpc target of 11 and was ranked 300 on the priority list deserved to get someone more than a big tracon with a 100+ cpc target deserved to get a second person. These rules worked really well for people at places that were well staffed country clubs that no one wanted to leave. It allowed 3 HOU guys the opportunity to get to DFW/IAH. 2 SFB guys to get to F11. 2 FLL guys to go to MCO and IAH. It let the rich get richer while hindering movement to places that have shit staffing that just got shittier.

I think you should re-educate yourself on what the stated goal of NCEPT is.

Straight from the May 25,2019 NCEPT SOP, Section 1.0 Purpose The goal of this process is to facilitate more timely releases of employees requesting transfer, while seeking to improve the distribution of the workforce.

this SOP is really an extension of Article 42 of the CBA, which Section 5 says "Employees desiring consideration for placement to a specific bargaining unit position at a specific facility may make voluntary application for transfers to facilities..."

In other words, it's to allow transfer/movement around the NAS. If people are fooled into thinking NCEPT is the solution to staffing the NAS then have I got a bridge to sell you.

The process will never be perfect, but from what the CBA discusses in A42, and what the SOP defines as the Purpose/Goal, I think sending people into 97 facilities when only 124 losses were available (and 121 were utilized) is a pretty good improvement.

 

[Spaceforce]

Well guys. Still not selected. Gotta increase my PAC contributions. I knew I should have donated to the Paul and Trish retirement fund.

 

[ATC0997]

Keep NCEPT like this and open up USAJob bids for big tracons/centers?
What’s the issues with that?

 

[Acquired Taste]

Don't worry, 3 more years and you'll be able to A124 your way out of IAH!

Or keep trying and maybe put in some face time with the ATM/FacRep to get ranked ahead of such inferior Lvl 5's. MLI is local-ish so it's quite possible they ranked this person high for a reason (had built a rapport, etc).

Also, since you're blaming it on the NCEPT process...let's apply this scenario to the pre-NCEPT process. You submit ERR to ORD. MLI person submits ERR to ORD. ATM likes MLI person and has a rapport so selects MLI person. Or ORD calls your IAH ATM and your IAH ATM says "I won't release him til 2027!" and so ORD ATM selects MLI person, and any of another 100 possibilities...


I think you should re-educate yourself on what the stated goal of NCEPT is.

Straight from the May 25,2019 NCEPT SOP, Section 1.0 Purpose The goal of this process is to facilitate more timely releases of employees requesting transfer, while seeking to improve the distribution of the workforce.

this SOP is really an extension of Article 42 of the CBA, which Section 5 says "Employees desiring consideration for placement to a specific bargaining unit position at a specific facility may make voluntary application for transfers to facilities..."

In other words, it's to allow transfer/movement around the NAS. If people are fooled into thinking NCEPT is the solution to staffing the NAS then have I got a bridge to sell you.

The process will never be perfect, but from what the CBA discusses in A42, and what the SOP defines as the Purpose/Goal, I think sending people into 97 facilities when only 124 losses were available (and 121 were utilized) is a pretty good improvement.

"While the Union works with the agency on hiring and training, the NCEPT team is always looking to maximize movement from facilities that are healthy into those that need help."
This is a direct quote from the NCEPT team on the natca ncept page right now. Unfortunately, the rules favored movement from healthy facilities into other relatively healthy facilities.