May (Q3) 2023

[32andBelow]

They make so much at the centers though they are all happy and basically none of them want to move.

There’s plenty that want to change centers. But I guess the wait is more comfortable. A lot of people don’t even have paperwork in at this time cus they don’t see the point in trying

 

[acutetriangles]

We have a good amount of suggestions here to forward to the NCEPT panel:

1. NCT must be staffed above all else.

2. No same city/state transfers. Or any transfers unless you can prove you’re moving home.

3. The amount of Center transfers must be representative of the number of Center controllers.

 

[Move78]

A bunch of the big TRACONS that were hurting (A80, NCT, D10, D01, A90, P50) only got 1 body. SCT surprisingly got 3. Meanwhile, places like IAH and DFW got 4 each, F11 got 3, and they allowed a bunch of lateral/low level transfers to places that get AGs and OTS hires like BTV to CHA, PIA to RFD, ELM to ROC. I'm sure the big places will be staffed and you'll be off your 6 day work weeks in no time if they just keep a steady flow of 1 or no bodies per NCEPT panel coming their way while making sure VRB gets staffed over 100%.

Just put me in charge of the NCEPT rules already. I'm all for maximizing movement, but it should take a back seat to prioritizing staffing at places that desperately need it. After all the moves are made to maximize staffing at the large facilities that don't only receive staffing through NCEPT, then we can work towards filling any remaining releases to lower priority places.

The big tracons getting 1 per panel is not sustainable. They should be selecting higher in the draft and getting more than 1. They’re not all the same though, the D10s and A80s don’t get large lists because you have to work for the money.

 

[hpwjuicebox]

We have a good amount of suggestions here to forward to the NCEPT panel:

1. NCT must be staffed above all else.

2. No same city/state transfers. Or any transfers unless you can prove you’re moving home.

3. The amount of Center transfers must be representative of the number of Center controllers.

I’d like to request that a picture of my brown eye be added to whatever is being forwarded to the panel.

 

[Move78]

There’s plenty that want to change centers. But I guess the wait is more comfortable. A lot of people don’t even have paperwork in at this time cus they don’t see the point in trying

Imagine being so lazy you don’t bother to fill out paperwork. Or so naive you think it’s not worth trying when they’ve been changing the rules every panel for 3 years so there’s no way to know ahead of time what to expect.

 

[Acquired Taste]

It was 134 losses but okay. What rules do you want since you are the NCEPT soothsayer?

That's a big maybe. Looking at last panel, when there were more possible losses than there are this round, A80 had a manager's ranking list of 5 people. They got their number 1 and 4 because numbers 2, 3, and 5's facilities were out of releases by the time it got to them. I'd say there's a good chance there's only about 5 people on their ranking list this time too, so there's a good chance they will get their number 1 or 2. But by them time it gets back around to them in round 2 and being that about 287 facilities are eligible to gain and there's only 134 releases out there, I'd argue it's not just possible, but it's likely that A80 only gets 1 unless some secret closed door dynamic decisions take place.

I think a much better way to ensure the list isn't so top heavy is maybe implement some selection caps again based on how much each body represents towards projected target. Let's say each facility is capped at whatever number of selections it takes to get their projected to target to increase by 2%. Looking at DFW as an example. Target is 57. (1/57) multiplied by the training success rate 85.4% means each selection adds ~1.5% to their projected calculation so they could make 2 selections each panel. The same formula for some of top priority facilities would leave you with selection caps as follows:

NCT	5
JCF	1
PUB	1
A80	5
SNA	1
SCT	7
A11	1
M03	1
I90	3
CLT	3
D10	3
D01	3
HCF	3

Obviously these numbers need a little work but I think it's a good framework. Instead of making the cap 1 on some of these places, make the minimum cap 2 selections and the maximum 5. That way it isn't too skewed towards the neediest places. Round 1 can be exclusively level 8-12s in which they draft in an order decided by the National Terminal List. It's not perfect but the draft order could hypothetically go something like
1. MYF
2. ORF
3. TEB
4. Y90
5. A80
6. MIA
7. SCT
8. PCT
9. SCT
10. Y90.........

After everyone in Round 1, hits their caps/selections can no longer be made, Round 2 starts with the all the other facilities under the same rules until there's no more possible moves.

I am a big believer you should have to be a CPC for a year before you can ERR out. I think that would end some of the hate for the system. I was personally affected by a brand new CPC who sniped a CAT 1 release to somewhere they had no business going. If people had to wait a year to bid out, it would give CPCs who have done their time an opportunity to get selected to lower/mid level places they want to go without having to be so desperate to get the only release in years as a result of the guy who just CPC'd and who put in for SCT that happens to be at the top of the list. If we had sensible cap limits on how many people a facility could select per panel (I'd say 5 is a good number), that brand new CPC wouldn't have been selected either. There are certainly ways to get better results out of the ncept program.

I also think all releases should be CAT 1. A year from now is a long time to wait for your new trainee to show up when staffing was bad enough for them to be selected today.

After further digging, the 134 possible losses is misleading because there are some facilities (P31, PHX, RSW, MHT, MSP, SDL, and VRB) that have more releases available than people trying to ERR out. How is no one trying to leave MHT? Makes 0 sense. There are also a few of facilities that can release 1 but only have 1 person trying to leave. Pretty surprising that only 1 person is trying to leave MFD and they only want to go to one specific facility honestly. Either way, the actual max possible selections this round is 124 but it will likely be closer to 110-115 if I had to guess.

Those were posts with legitimate suggestions to the rules pre panel. And explaining how I arrived at the 124 possible losses number

 

[ATC123]

Those were posts with legitimate suggestions to the rules pre panel. And explaining how I arrived at the 124 possible losses number

Are you sending these to your NCEPT rep, or just posting here on the internet with hopes that they read it?

Discussion here is fine, but communicate with those that represent you if you have an idea and want it heard.

 

[32andBelow]

Imagine being so lazy you don’t bother to fill out paperwork. Or so naive you think it’s not worth trying when they’ve been changing the rules every panel for 3 years so there’s no way to know ahead of time what to expect.

I dunno their thought process. Just saying what I’ve heard. You know if you’re red and you know that 20 more people won’t get certified between now and the panel. I think over time people judt get comfortable and moving would be a huge pain in the ass. I feel bad for the people who have been trying to get home since day 1 though. There’s no reason it should be taking them so long to get a shot at transferring.

 

[Pumpnfly]

Another Ncept another two people released from our facility. NCEPT works just fine down here.

NCEPT is great!

 

[Move78]

I dunno their thought process. Just saying what I’ve heard. You know if you’re red and you know that 20 more people won’t get certified between now and the panel. I think over time people judt get comfortable and moving would be a huge pain in the ass. I feel bad for the people who have been trying to get home since day 1 though. There’s no reason it should be taking them so long to get a shot at transferring.

If you work in a center as soon as you get anywhere close to those 20 checkouts management will deviate you backwards again anyway. You’ll eat shit and you better say thank you.

 

[Raz]

The NCEPT gods have blessed me.

 

[FAAHouston TX]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

 

[acutetriangles]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Sounds like the guy from the level 5 at a CAT 2 facility would agree with it.

 

[Jake Sully]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Sounds like you’ve been able to move around a bit- and the level 5 was ranked number 1 by the receiving facility so it’s who they wanted…

 

[ncssailor]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Go cry somewhere else you’ve gotten picked up twice and are making bank in Houston.

 

[Move78]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

That’s not an NCEPT thing that’s basic rankings. Ranking candidates would be present in any process.

 

[sixty]

Well the dudes realtive works there soooo

 

[FAAHouston TX]

That’s not an NCEPT thing that’s basic rankings. Ranking candidates would be present in any process.

Basic Rankings ??? How would someone with level 5 experience rank higher than someone with level 11 and 12..no I'm not "crying" just dont understand the process I guess

Go cry somewhere else you’ve gotten picked up twice and are making bank in Houston.

Not crying at all...experience needs to come into play at some point and I obviously have more experience. Also as far as NATCA is concerned I have been paying dues for 20 years, why would the union rank someone higher that hasn't " done their time"? These are questions not crying. I have been blessed for sure at my facilities.

 

[boots]

I was passed over on this panel. Had my paperwork in to go from IAH to ORD. I have previous level 12 (IAH when I got there in 2011), level 11 (IAD from 08-11) and level 8 HOU tower. We were Cat 1 as far as getting released and I was passed over for someone coming from a level 5 and is at a cat 2 facility...... no idea how anyone agrees with the NCEPT process.

Sorry you lost. Let the level 5 have some money pal. You will be fine

 

[ajmezz]

Did you network with the rep/atm? Make a trip to the facility? Have any friends there to talk you up? Or did you just think you should be ranked #1 because of your experience alone? When you have to work next to someone day in and day out, making those connections plays a bigger part than just where you've worked.

I'm not saying its the case in this instance, but people talk and when you find out someone is an ahole/tough to work with, they're more likely to rank them lower on the list no matter what their experience is.