New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[Phanatical]

I am absolutely not working a week of straight mids. Talk about zero work life balance and increased fatigue.

It isn’t bad once you adjust to it. Other career fields have that.

 

[bradlutz]

Anyone remember what happened when they changed it from 8 hours to 9 hours between shifts? I remember it happening but no details on how it was implemented reference BWS.

I’m genuinely curious what Whitaker’s idea is for mids being that 12 hours makes the day/mid virtually impossible. He must have had something in mind when issuing this order. The FAA has always been anti straight mids, but that’s obviously the way countless industries staff them.

It’s all in the report and study. The goal is getting rid of the 2-2-1 schedule. https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/media/Fatigue_Report.pdf

I think the FAA is in a corner right now and is trying to save face. The report for a fatigue study drops right around the same time controllers have near misses at major airports. They just want to look like they are doing something to fix it for liability sake.

 

[Raise when?]

I am absolutely not working a week of straight mids. Talk about zero work life balance and increased fatigue.

i'd do it

for a raise a REAL raise. Not this bubblegum bullshit 1.6. Let's call it the Raise When? 5 for 5 plan, with a 25k up front backpayment bonus. 5% raise over 5 years.

 

[ManBearPig]

I just don't see how they are going to implement this without (even more) OT; especially at 24 HR facilities.

So we get more rest between shifts but overall we work more because of scheduled OT? Only the FAA can come up with that "fix" and get away with it.

Good news is with a reverse rattler, you are only eligible to work 1st RDO day shift.

 

[CoffeeIV]

Good news is with a reverse rattler, you are only eligible to work 1st RDO day shift.

Do you people actually get 8 hours of sleep on mids or are you just lying to yourself and everyone else? I'm lucky to get 6 hours. What your proposing is less sleep at the start of the week to get compounded. Then you throw in kids and you're getting less sleep then you were before.

 

[ATOH]

Good news is with a reverse rattler, you are only eligible to work 1st RDO day shift.

So I can have OT on my Saturday and have to work the mid on my Sunday evening. Sounds amazing if you don't want to have any weekend whatsoever.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

So I can have OT on my Saturday and have to work the mid on my Sunday evening. Sounds amazing if you don't want to have any weekend whatsoever.

Exactly. At the facility seven days a week working six shifts. The reverse rattler absolutely screws the weekend.

 

[DankVectorz]

It’s all in the report and study. The goal is getting rid of the 2-2-1 schedule. https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/media/Fatigue_Report.pdf

I think the FAA is in a corner right now and is trying to save face. The report for a fatigue study drops right around the same time controllers have near misses at major airports. They just want to look like they are doing something to fix it for liability sake.

Tbf, on all the ATC forums like here and Reddit etc everyone always complained about the rattler and that it was killing us etc etc etc and now the FAA is trying to get rid of it and now all everyone is doing is bitching about that. The only thing controllers hate more than the status quo is change.

 

[32andBelow]

Tbf, on all the ATC forums like here and Reddit etc everyone always complained about the rattler and that it was killing us etc etc etc and now the FAA is trying to get rid of it and now all everyone is doing is bitching about that. The only thing controllers hate more than the status quo is change.

It’s doesn’t mean it’s the same people. Plus there’s a middle ground of what will he replacement be? It could be worse

 

[ATOH]

Exactly. At the facility seven days a week working six shifts. The reverse rattler absolutely screws the weekend.

Everyone complaining about the rattler is going to realize that it will probably be way better than what most 24 hour w/ OT facilties are about to get slapped with.

 

[bradlutz]

Tbf, on all the ATC forums like here and Reddit etc everyone always complained about the rattler and that it was killing us etc etc etc and now the FAA is trying to get rid of it and now all everyone is doing is bitching about that. The only thing controllers hate more than the status quo is change.

Everyone complaining about the rattler is going to realize that it will probably be way better than what most 24 hour w/ OT facilties are about to get slapped with.

People love to complain about everything I agree. We have people at my facility that complain about the rattler and refuse to do anything about. The same people are on the requesting list and bitch about OT.

I could also give a fuck about how much OT I’m assigned. Use article 26.

 

[Soul_Controller]

Do you people actually get 8 hours of sleep on mids or are you just lying to yourself and everyone else? I'm lucky to get 6 hours. What your proposing is less sleep at the start of the week to get compounded. Then you throw in kids and you're getting less sleep then you were before.

It wouldn't get compounded because your next shift wouldn't be for 23 hours. Then the next shift after that is like 17 hours away. If you can't sleep with that, then there is no schedule for you that works.

The trouble you run into on the agency side is covering OT with half the amount of people available than what would normally be.

 

[ajmezz]

Do you people actually get 8 hours of sleep on mids or are you just lying to yourself and everyone else? I'm lucky to get 6 hours. What your proposing is less sleep at the start of the week to get compounded. Then you throw in kids and you're getting less sleep then you were before.

FAA’s next step: get medical requirements changed so all new hires must be sterilized and already having kids is disqualifying.

 

[twn]

I am absolutely not working a week of straight mids. Talk about zero work life balance and increased fatigue.

You'll do what big Whit tells you to do

 

[ClearanceClarence]

On a side note, weren’t unilateral decisions being made by top level officials that ultimately harm the workforce and cause chaos what NATCA warned us would happen if we voted for Trump? And why they refused to renegotiate the contract?

 

[SquawkHijack]

You should read article 124. That’s not how it works at all.

I know how the article works. Consider the context of how I spoke of people moving up to high level facilities (that means 10-12’s per the article). “Riding the article 124 train to retirement” meant after 15 years at your 10-12, going to a lower level facility and coasting one’s last few years.

The fact that I really had to spell this out for you is a joke.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

FAA’s next step: get medical requirements changed so all new hires must be sterilized and already having kids is disqualifying.

Night's Watch 2: Electric Boogaloo

On a side note, weren’t unilateral decisions being made by top level officials that ultimately harm the workforce and cause chaos what NATCA warned us would happen if we voted for Trump? And why they refused to renegotiate the contract?

Anybody seen ClearanceClarence lately?

 

[Bandit117]

To release once a quarter you need a certification once a quarter or your bleeding lower levels dry.

If there aren’t enough total bodies, you have to triage. Where do you put the ones you have - Z’s, core 30 towers and upper level Tracons? Or is it better to staff moline and Bismarck and Tucson tower?

If there’s not enough controllers to go around, let the lower level places bleed a bit. They always manage to make it work. If they can’t, start cutting back hours and services at low level places, let the staffing dictate hours like every other business

Realistically does the FAA have the authority to mandate these new restrictions mid MOU? Could these be imposed on us?

It depends. They clearly think they have the right to impose it. Natca isn’t saying they can’t either, only “at the right moment we will lobby etc”

It could very easily end up in court

 

[KP-ATC]

It depends. They clearly think they have the right to impose it. Natca isn’t saying they can’t either, only “at the right moment we will lobby etc”

It could very easily end up in court

Things don't end up in court when you have weak leadership, like we currently have.

 

[Mike Kilo]

It depends. They clearly think they have the right to impose it. Natca isn’t saying they can’t either, only “at the right moment we will lobby etc”

It could very easily end up in court

Court would cut into the yacht fund. It will easily end up in full effect with or without collaboration.