It was a giant difference for us. FAA tower was like 100k operations, military tower was like 300k ops. Plus their Outlying Field traffic they had towers at with non-stop pattern traffic too. Ran approach/departure for all of them.
Curious how HR will send the names? Anyone with A80 in regardless of current manning will be forwarded to the ATM at A80 instead of only facs that can release? This is good for A80 for sure. Good thing the other two big places I want to go to are selecting also
Do we know A80 and LAX won't have paid moves?
Death, Taxes, and @Robertb mentioning a paid move are really the only certain things we know in this life. I figured he would've mentioned it in his first post. Also, in one of the first few panels, they discussed the uncertainly of people being selected for N90/C90 during the NCEPT and if they would be eligible for the paid move. It's the main reason they removed them from consideration and later, Guam, as well. If they remain 'in' the NCEPT, my money is on an unpaid move, but I'm sure RobertB will chime in with the final verdict.
My point is that between a level 7 and a level 9 is a huge jump in traffic (a level 7 to a level 8 is also a large jump in traffic granted mostly in the tower for the majority of facilities) and also a huge jump in probability to certify here.
At this moment, a paid move bid is highly unlikely for A80. If you want to come here from a level 7 or lower, your best chance of getting selected is this panel as we are anticipating a TON of level 8s and higher on the next panel. If your paperwork isn't in already, your chances of coming here, from a level 7 or lower, are going to get worse for the foreseeable future.
And what's the new hire certification rate? Because the agency still sends new hires there. There one on the direct to facility list on KSN
Ideally, yes everyone should come from 10s, 11s and 12s when they want to go to A80, C90, D10, N90, etc. because those backgrounds show that you've been able to work a significant volume of traffic and/or complexity. Even then, the difference between some level 11s and 12s is staggering in regards to traffic volume (Example: A80 did 1.2M ops/903K to ATL as a level 12 in 2016 while A90 did 640K ops/409K to BOS as a level 11 in 2016). You should start at a 5-8, then move up to a 8-11, then move on to a 10-12. Your upward mobility will be faster (say level 8 to 11 to 12) based on ability where a slower learner might need to move multiple times to potentially become a level 12 controller (say level 5 to 8 to 10 to 12).
I get where you're coming from. It's not a bad argument except for one thing. I'm going to potentially get one move in my career, if that.
I'm not waiting for staffing to improve. I went to fax them the other day and almost went office space on the damn fax machine. So they're sitting in my locker right now. Currently on a paid vacation compliments of Mr. Hurricane Harvey so I'll get them out when we're back. I have 6 ERR's and none are to A80 right now. Like to hold out for something in Dallas. But if they end up doing a paid move to A80 that would entice me further.
Since 2010, Shawn is the only one to come straight from MDT and certify here. If you go somewhere else, after MDT, prior to coming here, that doesn't make the MDT background part of the determination for the reason you were successful and used to determine a potential success rate. Further in the past than 2010, I don't currently know as that data isn't easily accessible, but could look to get it, though I'd need more time to gather it. I just find it hard to imagine three other people, coming straight from MDT to here, and certifying as the old way was you used certain feeder facilities that consistently demonstrated success (Birmingham, Memphis, Nashville were the main ones in the southeastern US) and MDT wasn't considered a feeder facility for A80. A lot of people went to PIT (when they were a level 4= current level 11 equivalent) and have certified here. Maybe Shawn thinks that because those people may have had MDT on their resume, before PIT and before A80, that there is a correlation. I'd say no as PIT helped them be successful here, not MDT directly, and the agency and union currently have that same opinion which is why you have seen paid move bids to places with say "level 9 or higher radar experience."
I get that man and this new process sucks because people are moving not because they're qualified to move, but because they're available. It's also forcing people to play roulette with their careers and have to take a gamble, to move to their dream location, before they've helped themselves get more experience that may significantly help them be successful. The worst feeling ever would be moving to your dream location, because you were able to be released not because you were ready, and roughly a year later, be packing your bags to move away from your dream location. THAT is what I'm trying to warn people about because you most likely will never get that second chance...
Shawn can say MDT is 4 for 4, but as of 2010 he is the ONLY one to come directly from MDT and certify here. Tell him to tell you names of people who directly came here from MDT and that will make the search easier to verify or to tell him he's full of it. As previously stated, I'll look at the data, before 2010, and see if anyone else certified here, after transferring directly from MDT. I find it highly unlikely, but I will soon find out.
Also a valid argument. But with the inability to move easily what are people supposed to do? Settle for where they're at or somewhere else for the rest of their career and give up on their hopes? Plus then you get into the issue of the 8-10s being so low on the priority list you won't be able to get there. Which Natca also doesn't care about because "if you want to move, litter the top ten with ERRs, otherwise you're not trying hard enough"
I'm not going to state my opinion on recent or past certifications (I know you didn't ask, but I'm just saying that) as I've made it extremely clear I think it is a bad idea to send new hires to high level facilities especially without sending them to RTF and/or TSEW. From 2010 (easiest data to access) until 2016, 6/14 (42.8%) VRAs certified here. Before that, my understanding is that it was a MUCH lower success rate, but I'll have to access the data myself to verify. I'm just going off what people here have said. Since the end of 2016 number (didn't include anyone here still in training status), we're 3/5 (60.0%) on certifications and all of those certified in the last two months. Maybe it's because we have gotten a good batch of VRAs, maybe it's because we give them 60 hours of OJF per position, maybe it's because we increased their available training max hours by over 250%...
It sucks. The agency hasn't hired enough bodies and national is more concerned about getting N90 and their hour long lunches and 45 minute breaks another financial incentive while screwing the rest of the BUEs at other facilities. I still think people should move up at a slower rate than going straight from a level 5-8 to a 12. That would require new hires being sent to 5-8s, having them certify over the next two years. Then, those people at the 5-8s could move to say the 9s-11s and certify over two years. Finally, those people at the 9s-12s could move and certify at the 11-12s over two years. Best case scenario: 4-5 years to staff the high level facilities. Realistically given the agency's inability to hire, I'd say we may get better in 4-5 years (never to the national average), but we will be significantly short staffed again in ten years.
