New time off between shifts mandate. Big change

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

there’s obviously a lot of questions to be answered but I’m cautiously optimistic about this. This truly feels like the first domino to fall to get us on 32 hour work weeks some day. My facility doesn’t even have the bodies to assign overtime to staff our day/swing shifts to the negotiated amount and we’ve been making it work. So if people on their final shift of the week before the mid worked 530-10am and had to be back at 10pm that’s not too bad. Give them excused leave from 10-1:30.

 

[Kramer]

there’s obviously a lot of questions to be answered but I’m cautiously optimistic about this. This truly feels like the first domino to fall to get us on 32 hour work weeks some day. My facility doesn’t even have the bodies to assign overtime to staff our day/swing shifts to the negotiated amount and we’ve been making it work. So if people on their final shift of the week before the mid worked 530-10am and had to be back at 10pm that’s not too bad. Give them excused leave from 10-1:30.

3-11
1-9
7-3
6-2 (admin/fatigue leave 1030-1400)
1030-630 mid

If you can negotiate the ability for the admin/fatigue leave, that is the best case scenario 100%. Gives the FAA the best coverage with the limited staffing. If we go reverse rattler, then staffing is more difficult and controllers will be at the facility 7 days a week if on OT. Some will even quit (not a lot but more than what the agency is gaining with new hires vs attrition).

Natca should persue the above option. If they don't they will lose membership/money imo.

 

[ylolabfan]

ODO was shut down after an ugly deal on the mid shift at A90/BOS.

ODO was a knee jerk reaction to a performance issue. ODO had been used safely for decades. Instead of dealing with the performance issue they decided to make it so convoluted a lot of controllers simply refuse to do it.

 

[GulfBravoPapa]

I mean, how does this work at facilities like mine that are 24hr, critical staffing, already do mandatory 6day/10hrs?

It doesn't.

 

[bradlutz]

Does the current CBA have language that allows the FAA to do this without breaking the CBA?

 

[32andBelow]

Does the current CBA have language that allows the FAA to do this without breaking the CBA?

Do they not already change people’s shifts?

 

[cmac]

3-11
1-9
7-3
6-2 (admin/fatigue leave 1030-1400)
1030-630 mid

If you can negotiate the ability for the admin/fatigue leave, that is the best case scenario 100%. Gives the FAA the best coverage with the limited staffing. If we go reverse rattler, then staffing is more difficult and controllers will be at the facility 7 days a week if on OT. Some will even quit (not a lot but more than what the agency is gaining with new hires vs attrition).

Natca should persue the above option. If they don't they will lose membership/money imo.

NATCA should definitely be using this to push for 4 day workweeks and make sure they continue to throw it at the FAA that this is for "fatigue mitigation right!?" The reality is there is no rotating compressed schedule that is actually good for fatigue that these rule changes actually make better.... What I actually see happening is something like:
1700-0100
1300-2100
700-1500
(mid workers only)
530x7 (530-1230)
0030x9 (0030-0930)

It's more that every facilities scheduling MOU will need to be renegotiated.

 

[bradlutz]

Do they not already change people’s shifts?

Yes, but I'm sure this would require changes to the agreed upon core and ancillary shifts. Not to mention assigning of overtime becomes harder at lower staffed facilities.

 

[Phanatical]

Does the current CBA have language that allows the FAA to do this without breaking the CBA?

Shift scheduling is not expressly laid out in the CBA so it isn’t a violation of Article 102.

 

[bradlutz]

Shift scheduling is not expressly laid out in the CBA so it isn’t a violation of Article 102.

Thank you. Basically if its implemented all the local MOUs will need to be renegotiated.

 

[32andBelow]

Yes, but I'm sure this would require changes to the agreed upon core and ancillary shifts. Not to mention assigning of overtime becomes harder at lower staffed facilities.

They’d just assign the overtime to whoever is eligible. No different than today

 

[ClearanceClarence]

It’s also comical that NATCA’s first response is they’re “reviewing legal options.” Has NATCA ever sued the FAA on a national issue and won?

 

[Phanatical]

Thank you. Basically if its implemented all the local MOUs will need to be renegotiated.

Not necessarily, but it will impact mid-term bargaining for almost all 24-hour facilities.

 

[bradlutz]

They’d just assign the overtime to whoever is eligible. No different than today

True guess I'm overthinking it.

 

[Phanatical]

It’s also comical that NATCA’s first response is they’re “reviewing legal options.” Has NATCA ever sued the FAA on a national issue and won?

It’s not a matter of a lawsuit. It’s a matter of contractual obligations/grievances.

 

[32andBelow]

It’s not a matter of a lawsuit. It’s a matter of contractual obligations/grievances.

And how do you enforce it?

 

[CoffeeIV]

CRWG numbers here we come. Not sure if the new numbers can even cover staffing for this.

 

[Kramer]

CRWG numbers here we come. Not sure if the new numbers can even cover staffing for this.

Crwg. That's a pipe dream. At best a 3-4 year plan. My facility number is 14. Crwg is like 22. We never have more than 12 consistently. And we're 24/7.

 

[UnableRadar]

NATCA should definitely be using this to push for 4 day workweeks and make sure they continue to throw it at the FAA that this is for "fatigue mitigation right!?" The reality is there is no rotating compressed schedule that is actually good for fatigue that these rule changes actually make better.... What I actually see happening is something like:
1700-0100
1300-2100
700-1500
(mid workers only)
530x7 (530-1230)
0030x9 (0030-0930)

This is going to remove a lot of extra shifts 24 hour facilities currently utilize like the 1500-2300 shift.

Personally I could see a new mid shift week looking something along the lines of:

1400-2200
1200-2000
0700-1500
This is where it gets tricky… Either a 0200-1000 shift to be in compliance or move all mid shifts to a 0000 start time and do something like a 0400-1200 shift for fourth day.

 

[Acatc2023]

This is just gonna fuck staffing even more at 24 hour facilities. At my low level 24 hr we dont have the bodies for this.

Exactly, I’m at a level 8 tracon, 24 hour facility, only 12 CPC.