September (Q4) 2019

mrobs15

Forum Sage
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
303
You know, it’s not like getting picked up is that awesome. I’ve got to deal with moving now, and that’s a big PITA. This raise is gonna change my taxes too, ugh. Might have to start driving Uber while I’m in training too....
0/10. Maybe you'll do better with the next account you make.
 

fknlo

Lurker
FAA
Messages
5
Facility
ZDV Denver Center
You know, it’s not like getting picked up is that awesome. I’ve got to deal with moving now, and that’s a big PITA. This raise is gonna change my taxes too, ugh. Might have to start driving Uber while I’m in training too....
Don't worry, you'll get to your new facility and realize that it's pretty fucked up but think that you can handle it. About a year later you'll realize you can't but it will be too late to get out and you'll be stuck there, more miserable than you ever were at your first facility.
 

JNev

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
360
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
Don't worry, you'll get to your new facility and realize that it's pretty fucked up but think that you can handle it. About a year later you'll realize you can't but it will be too late to get out and you'll be stuck there, more miserable than you ever were at your first facility.
It’s that an obvious troll? Everyone can’t resist feeding them I guess
 

Dolan

Trusted Contributor
Messages
256
Hey, I think it's time we start publicly posting manager rankings. Anyone else want to start holding them accountable for the selections they make?
 

Uscolt45

Forum Sage
Messages
578
Hey, I think it's time we start publicly posting manager rankings. Anyone else want to start holding them accountable for the selections they make?
You cannot hold them accountable. There is no rule that states what they must hire. They don’t even have us add up the points on the rating of ATC experience.

One thing I do not agree with is them seeing other facilities ranking list. Either before or after they are ranked by the managers. This will cause facilities to discriminate. Just because I have six ERRs out there doesn’t mean I do not really really want to get to a specific facility, I just really want out of where I am.

Just rank the people how you want them based on experience and your phone calls etc. With the dynamic decisions and staffing issues if you don’t rank them on top because “they might get picked up somewhere else” you are only hurting yourselves.
 

FightingIrish2012

Forum Sage
Messages
336
Hey, I think it's time we start publicly posting manager rankings. Anyone else want to start holding them accountable for the selections they make?
Decent idea but remember in most facilities it’s the NATCA ranking list so neither side would ever go for that. Plus it would raise too many questions when a 4 months CPC at a level 5 tower who is a nephew of a 25 year veteran and ZXX shows up as #1 on the ranking list when the seven year CPC from a level 8 up/down rates much lower.
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
865
Decent idea but remember in most facilities it’s the NATCA ranking list so neither side would ever go for that. Plus it would raise too many questions when a 4 months CPC at a level 5 tower who is a nephew of a 25 year veteran and ZXX shows up as #1 on the ranking list when the seven year CPC from a level 8 up/down rates much lower.
"Most" is an unprovable opinion.
 

PushingTin

Forum Sage
Messages
479
Plus it would raise too many questions when a 4 months CPC at a level 5 tower who is a nephew of a 25 year veteran and ZXX shows up as #1 on the ranking list when the seven year CPC from a level 8 up/down rates much lower.

FAA ATC has more Nepotism than any other career field I've seen. Even more than the big city police and fire departments. I have taken perverse pleasure in seeing the Academy standards tighten and the young entitled Hunter Biden's of the FAA wash. I admit that makes some part of me a terrible person but I just cannnnt even.

I personally knew a guy who shamelessly bragged every day that he was politic'ing at the highest levels of NATCA to get his son into the Academy JUST before the FERs retirement deduction rose from 1.3% to the 3-4% it is now. He was literally red with anger "NATCA almost screwed me! They promised my son would have an academy date before FERs went up, theyre fu*&ing me!" . Then the kid washed. So anything that exposes the corruption is good.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. PUBLISH THE LISTS!
 

Dolan

Trusted Contributor
Messages
256
You cannot hold them accountable. There is no rule that states what they must hire. They don’t even have us add up the points on the rating of ATC experience.
Oh I totally understand they aren't obligated to rank people in any certain way. I'm just saying that if they're essentially ranking people in reverse order of experience, or ranking their friends and family ahead of everyone else, or ranking all white people before any black people, it's important to let people know that. It's important to show that behavior to the workforce.

Decent idea but remember in most facilities it’s the NATCA ranking list so neither side would ever go for that. Plus it would raise too many questions when a 4 months CPC at a level 5 tower who is a nephew of a 25 year veteran and ZXX shows up as #1 on the ranking list when the seven year CPC from a level 8 up/down rates much lower.
Yeah I wasn't saying that rules should change to make the lists public for the exact reasons you said. I'm just saying I can find a way to get access to the lists now and then. We should just share them here, over private messages or something
 

Uscolt45

Forum Sage
Messages
578
Oh I totally understand they aren't obligated to rank people in any certain way. I'm just saying that if they're essentially ranking people in reverse order of experience, or ranking their friends and family ahead of everyone else, or ranking all white people before any black people, it's important to let people know that. It's important to show that behavior to the workforce.
I could get behind that part. It’s hard at a lot of facilities, management is constantly changing and every new temp ATM does it differently. The FAA needs to make less profitable for management to bounce around constantly just checking boxes and not getting invested at all in the facility. Too many of them don’t want to ruffle feathers or make tough decisions because they are too worried about the next job.
 

JNev

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
360
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
One thing I've found is NATCA prefers the "4 month CPC from a Level 5" to the "8 year CPC from a 9" because they get to keep their seniority and schedule they want. (And maybe being an 8 year CPC at a 9 doesn't make you a better controller than being a 4 month CPC from a 5 and they know that too)
 

Move78

Forum Sage
Messages
865
One thing I've found is NATCA prefers the "4 month CPC from a Level 5" to the "8 year CPC from a 9" because they get to keep their seniority and schedule they want. (And maybe being an 8 year CPC at a 9 doesn't make you a better controller than being a 4 month CPC from a 5 and they know that too)
That's not a NATCA thing, that's just a "some people" thing. And its actually one of the many reasons they changed the ERRs program because there were certain enroute facilities that wouldn't pull lists to fill staffing because they knew they just keep getting academy grads to back fill and then everyone gets to keep seniority.
 
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JNev

Forum Sage
FAA
Messages
360
Facility
MRY Monterey Tower
That's not a NATCA thing, that's just a "some people" thing. And its actually one of the many reasons they changed the ERRs program because there were certain enroute facilities that wouldn't pull lists to fill staffing because they knew they just keep getting academy grads to back fill and then everyone gets to keep seniority.
Definitely fair and I should've worded it better
 

Williams3982

Member
Messages
38
All I gather from this is that you have a .01% chance in transferring facilities unless you know someone. Sounds thrilling
 
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Uscolt45

Forum Sage
Messages
578
All I gather from this is that you have a .01% chance in transferring facilities unless you know someone. Sounds thrilling
My last two facilities I knew nobody. It helps but not necessary. One facility I played the game and visited and stayed in touch. The other absolutely nothing as it was better than where I was but not where I wanted to end up.
 
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