The 1 and None club - AKA the black holes in the System

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
183
So I have been working on compiling data that has yet to be centralized in a way that is useful with regards to NCEPT. We all hear rumors and hearsay, but I thought I would look into what are the real spots that suck people in. I've gone through all the panels and centralized how many people have been released from where. I am working on the places they have been released to, but this is a good start. I will release my .XLS when its done, but for now the data is sobering. Numbers all from the latest PPT on here. Some make sense, like no one really wants to leave SFB or MRI, those are sweet spots and you make good money with locality etc.

These are the places below a level 10/11/12 that have only released "1 or None". I left out the 15 x 10/11/12's that meet the same criteria because for most people that is a career goal. Overall there are 51 facilities that are in this "club" if you count all levels. If there are errors, they are mine alone. I am still QCing the data to make sure I got it right. Like for some reason I thought EVV and SHV had released people. I went through 17 panels, if there are more, let me know. I got all the panel info from the pdfs in resources section posted here.

levelIDNameReleasesyears avg trainingfacility staff %training success %
6ALBAlbany Tower
0​
2.50​
82.1%​
67.6%​
5BISBismarck TRACAB
0​
1.65​
61.5%​
100.0%​
5DLHDuluth Tower
0​
2.49​
90.0%​
66.7%​
5EVVEvansville Tower
0​
1.56​
82.4%​
57.9%​
6FAYFayetteville Tower
0​
2.12​
54.5%​
65.4%​
5GTFGreat Falls Tower
0​
1.92​
76.5%​
72.4%​
5HUFTerre Haute Tower
0​
2.05​
82.4%​
77.3%​
8ICTWichita Tower
0​
2.86​
83.3%​
77.8%​
9JAXJacksonville Tower
0​
1.96​
72.3%​
50.9%​
5MLIMoline Quad City Tower
0​
1.89​
80.0%​
74.2%​
6MWHGrant County Tower
0​
1.72​
73.3%​
68.8%​
5ROWRoswell Tower
0​
1.85​
66.7%​
81.0%​
6SHVShreveport Tower
0​
1.93​
61.5%​
96.0%​
5TRITri-Cities Tower
0​
2.11​
82.4%​
61.1%​
9ZSUSan Juan
0​
2.47​
61.3%​
67.5%​
6ACYAtlantic City Tower
1​
2.34​
92.3%​
75.0%​
5AGSAugusta Tower
1​
2.36​
73.3%​
85.7%​
6AMAAmarillo Tower
1​
2.26​
86.4%​
71.4%​
5ARBAnn Arbor Tower
1​
0.93​
88.9%​
83.0%​
9CVGCincinnati Tower
1​
1.64​
76.7%​
83.3%​
7GEGSpokane Tower
1​
1.75​
92.9%​
73.1%​
6GGGLongview Tower
1​
2.31​
86.4%​
61.9%​
7GSOGreensboro Tower
1​
1.70​
92.3%​
58.3%​
7HPNWestchester Tower
1​
2.86​
86.7%​
83.3%​
8JCFJoshua TRACON
1​
1.51​
87.5%​
82.8%​
8MCIKansas City International Tower
1​
1.33​
84.6%​
88.5%​
6MRIMerrill Tower
1​
0.57​
109.1%​
100.0%​
9MSYMoiusantt Tower
1​
1.11​
72.2%​
86.4%​
8OKCOklahoma City Tower
1​
1.83​
63.3%​
73.9%​
6PTKPontiac Tower
1​
0.93​
72.7%​
81.0%​
9SATSan Antonio Tower
1​
1.89​
84.4%​
87.5%​
7SBNSouth Bend Tower
1​
2.10​
65.4%​
75.0%​
8SDFStandiford Tower
1​
2.20​
85.1%​
81.5%​
9SFBSanford Tower
1​
0.60​
100.0%​
89.5%​
5SUXSioux Gateway Tower
1​
2.01​
80.0%​
86.7%​
6TUSTucson Tower
1​
0.96​
82.4%​
69.6%​
8Y90Yankee TRACON
1​
2.04​
59.1%​
65.0%​


So the big question is, what do we do about it? How do we fix it? How do we give people hope? I would be very curious to see the number of supe deviations from these places.
 
Last edited:

Kilo popa

Trusted Contributor
Messages
127
So I have been working on compiling data that has yet to be centralized in a way that is useful with regards to NCEPT. We all hear rumors and hearsay, but I thought I would look into what are the real spots that suck people in. I've gone through all the panels and centralized how many people have been released from where. I am working on the places they have been released to, but this is a good start. I will release my .XLS when its done, but for now the data is sobering. Numbers all from the latest PPT on here. Some make sense, like no one really wants to leave SFB or MRY, those are sweet spots and you make good money with locality etc.

These are the places below a level 10/11/12 that have only released "1 or None". I left out the 10/11/12's because for most people that is a career goal. If there are errors, they are mine alone. I am still QCing the data to make sure I got it right. Like for some reason I thought EVV and SHV had released people. I went through 17 panels, if there are more, let me know. I got all the panel info from the pdfs in resources section posted here.

levelIDNameReleasesyears avg trainingfacility staff %training success %
6ALBAlbany Tower
0​
2.50​
82.1%​
67.6%​
5BISBismarck TRACAB
0​
1.65​
61.5%​
100.0%​
5DLHDuluth Tower
0​
2.49​
90.0%​
66.7%​
5EVVEvansville Tower
0​
1.56​
82.4%​
57.9%​
6FAYFayetteville Tower
0​
2.12​
54.5%​
65.4%​
5GTFGreat Falls Tower
0​
1.92​
76.5%​
72.4%​
5HUFTerre Haute Tower
0​
2.05​
82.4%​
77.3%​
8ICTWichita Tower
0​
2.86​
83.3%​
77.8%​
9JAXJacksonville Tower
0​
1.96​
72.3%​
50.9%​
5MLIMoline Quad City Tower
0​
1.89​
80.0%​
74.2%​
6MWHGrant County Tower
0​
1.72​
73.3%​
68.8%​
5ROWRoswell Tower
0​
1.85​
66.7%​
81.0%​
6SHVShreveport Tower
0​
1.93​
61.5%​
96.0%​
5TRITri-Cities Tower
0​
2.11​
82.4%​
61.1%​
9ZSUSan Juan
0​
2.47​
61.3%​
67.5%​
6ACYAtlantic City Tower
1​
2.34​
92.3%​
75.0%​
5AGSAugusta Tower
1​
2.36​
73.3%​
85.7%​
6AMAAmarillo Tower
1​
2.26​
86.4%​
71.4%​
5ARBAnn Arbor Tower
1​
0.93​
88.9%​
83.0%​
9CVGCincinnati Tower
1​
1.64​
76.7%​
83.3%​
7GEGSpokane Tower
1​
1.75​
92.9%​
73.1%​
6GGGLongview Tower
1​
2.31​
86.4%​
61.9%​
7GSOGreensboro Tower
1​
1.70​
92.3%​
58.3%​
7HPNWestchester Tower
1​
2.86​
86.7%​
83.3%​
8JCFJoshua TRACON
1​
1.51​
87.5%​
82.8%​
8MCIKansas City International Tower
1​
1.33​
84.6%​
88.5%​
6MRIMerrill Tower
1​
0.57​
109.1%​
100.0%​
9MSYMoiusantt Tower
1​
1.11​
72.2%​
86.4%​
8OKCOklahoma City Tower
1​
1.83​
63.3%​
73.9%​
6PTKPontiac Tower
1​
0.93​
72.7%​
81.0%​
9SATSan Antonio Tower
1​
1.89​
84.4%​
87.5%​
7SBNSouth Bend Tower
1​
2.10​
65.4%​
75.0%​
8SDFStandiford Tower
1​
2.20​
85.1%​
81.5%​
9SFBSanford Tower
1​
0.60​
100.0%​
89.5%​
5SUXSioux Gateway Tower
1​
2.01​
80.0%​
86.7%​
6TUSTucson Tower
1​
0.96​
82.4%​
69.6%​
8Y90Yankee TRACON
1​
2.04​
59.1%​
65.0%​


So the big question is, what do we do about it? How do we fix it? How do we give people hope? I would be very curious to see the number of supe deviations from these places.
Or priority bids. I know people from 6 facility’s on that list alone that are now at either N90 or A80.
 

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
183
Or priority bids. I know people from 6 facility’s on that list alone that are now at either N90 or A80.
The desperation bids lol. They got rid of the LAX/A80 one because it was too popular. I also wonder how successful they are. I cant imagine working BIS is good prep to work N90.

16% of facilities have released 1 or 0. That’s a persistent amount. I guess maybe that number should be a Bit smaller when you take into account places people don’t want to leave, but let’s face it, a decent number of people are barred from participating in the system due to circumstances beyond their control.
 
Last edited:

Kilo popa

Trusted Contributor
Messages
127
The desperation bids lol. They got rid of the LAX/A80 one because it was too popular. I also wonder how successful they are. I cant imagine working BIS is good prep to work N90.

16% of facilities have released 1 or 0. That’s a persistent amount. I guess maybe that number should be a Bit smaller when you take into account places people don’t want to leave, but let’s face it, a decent number of people are barred from participating in the system due to circumstances beyond their control.
Safe to say none of them are at BIS since I had to re look it up and had no idea where that is lol... but it worked for A80 , went from a priority release bid to get people there to being able to release people on current ncepts.
 
S

SIXTY-NINE

Guest
Newbie question but why don't they just up the pay? Through CIP?

It's basic supply and demand, no one wants to go to these towers because they are in less than ideal locations and don't pay well. (or have a bad culture but they probably wouldn't know that until they get there)

There is little demand and high supply of jobs. You can raise demand through incentive (pay probably being the easiest way).

Just keep upping the pay until people think "I'm willing to work at a tower in a less than ideal place because it pays way equivalent to tower X levels higher".

I know pay is determined by level but it still seems like the most elegant solution.

Bandit117 could you post all the centers in this list? Puerto Rico is the only one otherwise since close to all of them fall under 10/11/12 anyway.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

32andBelow

Legendary Member
Messages
2,775
Newbie question but why don't they just up the pay? Through CIP?

It's basic supply and demand, no one wants to go to these towers because they are in less than ideal locations and don't pay well. (or have a bad culture but they probably wouldn't know that until they get there)

There is little demand and high supply of jobs. You can raise demand through incentive (pay probably being the easiest way).

Just keep upping the pay until people think "I'm willing to work at a tower in a less than ideal place because it pays way equivalent to tower X levels higher".

I know pay is determined by level but it still seems like the most elegant solution.

Bandit117 could you post all the centers in this list? Puerto Rico is the only one otherwise since close to all of them fall under 10/11/12 anyway.
Doesn’t peur to Rico have 2 year bids with a bunch of incentives?
 
S

SIXTY-NINE

Guest
Doesn’t peur to Rico have 2 year bids with a bunch of incentives?
I'm a newbie so I'm not familiar with the incentives. All I know is that you pay a ridiculously low tax rate if you live there for 180 days out of the year. What are they? ZSU (Puerto Rico) is the only center on the list.

Edit:
  • Tax-free interest and dividends earned after you become a resident.
  • No long-term capital gains tax on appreciation after you become a resident.
  • 5% tax on long-term capital gain for appreciation before you move for any sales during your first 10 years as a resident.
Those are some pretty insane benefits... but you have to live in Puerto Rico.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

corn4ahead

Trusted Contributor
Messages
487
You’re missing some facilities I believe. AZO for example. They released 1 since the inception.
 

Alpha_bravo2

Trusted Contributor
Messages
406
Newbie question but why don't they just up the pay? Through CIP?

It's basic supply and demand, no one wants to go to these towers because they are in less than ideal locations and don't pay well. (or have a bad culture but they probably wouldn't know that until they get there)

There is little demand and high supply of jobs. You can raise demand through incentive (pay probably being the easiest way).

Just keep upping the pay until people think "I'm willing to work at a tower in a less than ideal place because it pays way equivalent to tower X levels higher".

I know pay is determined by level but it still seems like the most elegant solution.

Bandit117 could you post all the centers in this list? Puerto Rico is the only one otherwise since close to all of them fall under 10/11/12 anyway.
The majority of the up/downs probably got a string of academy grads for a while, and if I had to guess most didn't really have a choice in going there. My old facility is on this list and I know that when I got there there were around 9 CPC and 6 or 7 trainees,so throwing money at CPCs isn't going to solve a problem like that. Plus if the bulk of people going to a facility are OTS or Prior EXP the agency isn't going to give a financial incentive outside of CIP for folks to go there. They will simply keep putting it on list until someone takes it.
 

AB19

Trusted Contributor
Messages
408
I know a facility that isn’t on this list that hasn’t had someone get out since a year ago, and that person got picked up the year before and was delayed
 

Ad1234

Trusted Contributor
Messages
198
Have these facilities had retirement and hardships? What percentage of employees have paperwork out?

close some of these down and consolodate is one suggestion.
 

kombucha23

Member
Messages
20
I think your SHV number is off. There’s a guy who went SHV to HOU. For BIS, they had a controller go to management (not sure if there’s a way to factor in that to your spreadsheet).
 

ajmezz

Trusted Contributor
Messages
513
A friend of mine resigned from SHV after 5 years. The place is plagued with hardships, sup bids and had a couple people resign, due to the former two reasons.
 

Robertb

Forum Sage
Messages
720
Safe to say none of them are at BIS since I had to re look it up and had no idea where that is lol... but it worked for A80 , went from a priority release bid to get people there to being able to release people on current ncepts.
Release a single person simply because our ATM didn’t accurately update the PPT.
 

Bandit117

Trusted Contributor
Messages
183
You’re missing some facilities I believe. AZO for example. They released 1 since the inception.
According to my data, AZO has released 2. 6/17 and 9/17

I think your SHV number is off. There’s a guy who went SHV to HOU. For BIS, they had a controller go to management (not sure if there’s a way to factor in that to your spreadsheet).
Do you know what panel that was?

Have these facilities had retirement and hardships? What percentage of employees have paperwork out?

close some of these down and consolodate is one suggestion.
Newbie question but why don't they just up the pay? Through CIP?

It's basic supply and demand, no one wants to go to these towers because they are in less than ideal locations and don't pay well. (or have a bad culture but they probably wouldn't know that until they get there)

There is little demand and high supply of jobs. You can raise demand through incentive (pay probably being the easiest way).

Just keep upping the pay until people think "I'm willing to work at a tower in a less than ideal place because it pays way equivalent to tower X levels higher".

I know pay is determined by level but it still seems like the most elegant solution.

Bandit117 could you post all the centers in this list? Puerto Rico is the only one otherwise since close to all of them fall under 10/11/12 anyway.
Off the top of my head it was who you would expect - ZOA, ZBQ and ZNY. I think all the other ones have had at least a few releases. Some have had a lot 30+
 

#1349

Moderator
Staff member
I ♥ pointSixtyFive
Messages
626
I think your SHV number is off. There’s a guy who went SHV to HOU. For BIS, they had a controller go to management (not sure if there’s a way to factor in that to your spreadsheet).
I don’t think that was an ERR transfer. And the only GSO transfer is the same dude that hardshipped there a few years back.
 

BrocolliRob

Trusted Contributor
Messages
131
Not surprised to see my facility on the list. I’d say about half of us have paperwork out. In my time, we’ve had 3 retirements and 3 hardships. Staffing is as good as it’s ever been even with all that, think we were even eligible to let one go last round and no one got selected. ☹
 
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