*Insert Clickbait Thread Title Name Regarding Unions Here*

[RomeoTangoRT]

You’re the exact kind of rep that gets people to quit and go DOD and it’s “members” like you (by which I mean the slang term for a phallus) are why nothing will be advanced, because your myopia and defeatism.

It’s the type of person who kisses enough ass to get elected to a national position and then they’re the ones negotiating our contracts.

 

[Oh_Horizon]

It’s absolutely absurd we hire people with high school diplomas only. That’s prolly why half of them don’t make it.

I never stepped foot in college and I know I'm smarter than you because you fell for the Covid propaganda and I didn't. Checkmate, athiests.

 

[rhombus]

82 posts to mention Covid. A new record high 🥳

 

[Seeyoufly]

I wasn't able to find it explicitly stated: is it $2.75 immediately and then $7.50 additional over 5 years totaling $10.25, or 2.75 immediately and 4.75 additional over 5 years totaling 7.50?

Regardless, the average UPS pay is roughly $19/hr so even $7.50 is still a ~40% raise over 5 years for their median worker, which is roughly 7% every year. If it is $10.25 then that's closer to 10% every year and a ~60% raise over 5 years.

UPS drivers make far more than $19/h.

 

[Raise when?]

UPS drivers make far more than $19/h.

I thought they made 100k ez?

 

[Bandit117]

I thought they made 100k ez?

I wouldn’t say it’s easy, but it can be a 100k job the hard way, there’s usually lots of overtime available

 

[GMX]

I'm almost 50. I've met a lot of people who don't understand the difference between intelligence and education. Many believe they mean the same thing but they don't.

 

[Phillytroll69]

I'm almost 50. I've met a lot of people who don't understand the difference between intelligence and education. Many believe they mean the same thing but they don't.

Intelligence is what uneducated idiots pretend to have

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

UPS drivers make far more than $19/h.

That's why I said the average UPS employee and not driver; their contract includes more than just their drivers. Drivers typically start around $20 an hour, but it isn't uncommon for drivers to be near $35 an hour after ~5 years. Very respectable income for a true blue-collar job. But package handlers in their distribution/processing facilities and other employees are another story.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

Try and rely on a pilot to tell you how to control traffic 😤☕️🐸

 

[Seeyoufly]

That's why I said the average UPS employee and not driver; their contract includes more than just their drivers. Drivers typically start around $20 an hour, but it isn't uncommon for drivers to be near $35 an hour after ~5 years. Very respectable income for a true blue-collar job. But package handlers in their distribution/processing facilities and other employees are another story.

Ok, but you are generalizing the raises and representing the highest increase to the lowest wage, therefore coming up with 40% raise, which is not the reality of the agreement.

 

[Logical_Mongoose]

Ok, but you are generalizing the raises and representing the highest increase to the lowest wage, therefore coming up with 40% raise, which is not the reality of the agreement.

Using the general increase and the median wage is the most objective reality possible. What other calculation/variables should be used?

 

[Phillytroll69]

The reality of the situation is that our working conditions arent' that bad. Threatening to strike for a lack of a/c? I think we did that in the 80s. Not to oversimplify it but talking about striking is dumb-we have decent jobs. That said we are at record high, yes pre 9/11 levels plus of airplanes, and record low staffing. One suggestion for a contract option

tiered overtime
0-50 hrs 1.5x
50-100 1.75x
100-200 2x
200+ 2.5x
(this would also stop making it easier to just decide it's cheaper to pay overtime than train)

also, it's a little backwards to limit transfers to after x years cpc at a 10-12 facility you get to go where you choose, that needs to be cut down to y years cpc at any level.

i mean hate on the contract and union all you want but our job is pretty sweet, but it's become degraded to a lower middle class position and i feel like we should be upper middle class with 6 day a week shift work

 

[Seeyoufly]

Using the general increase and the median wage is the most objective reality possible. What other calculation/variables should be used?

Well a driver making $40 that gets a $2.75 raise is a 5-6% raise….not 40%…..

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

The reality of the situation is that our working conditions arent' that bad. Threatening to strike for a lack of a/c? I think we did that in the 80s. Not to oversimplify it but talking about striking is dumb-we have decent jobs. That said we are at record high, yes pre 9/11 levels plus of airplanes, and record low staffing. One suggestion for a contract option

tiered overtime
0-50 hrs 1.5x
50-100 1.75x
100-200 2x
200+ 2.5x
(this would also stop making it easier to just decide it's cheaper to pay overtime than train)

also, it's a little backwards to limit transfers to after x years cpc at a 10-12 facility you get to go where you choose, that needs to be cut down to y years cpc at any level.

i mean hate on the contract and union all you want but our job is pretty sweet, but it's become degraded to a lower middle class position and i feel like we should be upper middle class with 6 day a week shift work

Tiered OT definitely is the way to go if there is going to be a continued bottleneck of hiring at the academy. Hiring 1500 people a year will not cut it and we will be fucked by 2030. Tiered OT puts the pressure back on the FAA to have better hiring and staffing practices like you said. I also think we need more sick days than what’s current (especially with how much more aware we are of mental health). 6 hours a paycheck would be nice. Since we are forced to retire way earlier than other jobs it would be nice to have a higher TSP match to compensate for that. Obviously higher pay needs to be negotiated as well. I start getting frustrated that we extended the slate book because there was some clear problems that needed to be addressed. I’ve said it before in a different post but man if we end up with the same or worse contract for next CBA I am out the union because fuuuuuuuuck that.

 

[RomeoTangoRT]

The reality of the situation is that our working conditions arent' that bad. Threatening to strike for a lack of a/c? I think we did that in the 80s. Not to oversimplify it but talking about striking is dumb-we have decent jobs. That said we are at record high, yes pre 9/11 levels plus of airplanes, and record low staffing. One suggestion for a contract option

tiered overtime
0-50 hrs 1.5x
50-100 1.75x
100-200 2x
200+ 2.5x
(this would also stop making it easier to just decide it's cheaper to pay overtime than train)

also, it's a little backwards to limit transfers to after x years cpc at a 10-12 facility you get to go where you choose, that needs to be cut down to y years cpc at any level.

i mean hate on the contract and union all you want but our job is pretty sweet, but it's become degraded to a lower middle class position and i feel like we should be upper middle class with 6 day a week shift work

I have friends in the trades who would strike if their company changed to 1-ply toilet paper. As far as striking goes, I think we carry a lot more weight than in the 80s, nowadays. We’re talking 800m passengers in 1980 vs 4.6b in 2020. It’s an under represented fact but it would be a threat to national security if we went on a strike today. I feel like that’s a pretty decent bargaining chip. It’s irritating when my RVP threatens us by saying “sure, but remember last time y’all went on strike?”

Not arguing for or against, but different playing fields nonetheless.

 

[TangoBearFox]

Tiered OT definitely is the way to go if there is going to be a continued bottleneck of hiring at the academy. Hiring 1500 people a year will not cut it and we will be fucked by 2030. Tiered OT puts the pressure back on the FAA to have better hiring and staffing practices like you said. I also think we need more sick days than what’s current (especially with how much more aware we are of mental health). 6 hours a paycheck would be nice. Since we are forced to retire way earlier than other jobs it would be nice to have a higher TSP match to compensate for that. Obviously higher pay needs to be negotiated as well. I start getting frustrated that we extended the slate book because there was some clear problems that needed to be addressed. I’ve said it before in a different post but man if we end up with the same or worse contract for next CBA I am out the union because fuuuuuuuuck that.

Idk, union is too focused on changing gender neutral words in the constitution to do anything about that. Its criminal they didn't try to negotiate a new contract. That's where I want my dues to go to, lawyers to negotiate a better contract.
I've said it once and say it again I would never encourage my kids to do this job unless something drastic changes, the juice ain't worth the squeeze anymore. Every other professional job has caught up and in most cases surpassed pay especially at 10 and belows, and with downgrades being a backdoor pay cut for most of the NAS, what the fuck is our union doing!?

 

[FlightOfTheShortGuy]

Idk, union is too focused on changing gender neutral words in the constitution to do anything about that. Its criminal they didn't try to negotiate a new contract. That's where I want my dues to go to, lawyers to negotiate a better contract.
I've said it once and say it again I would never encourage my kids to do this job unless something drastic changes, the juice ain't worth the squeeze anymore. Every other professional job has caught up and in most cases surpassed pay especially at 10 and belows, and with downgrades being a backdoor pay cut for most of the NAS, what the fuck is our union doing!?

BuT mUh AcT oF CoNgReSs!!

 

[AB19]

Every other professional job requires a degree. And even then what do you think the average salary of a person is. Because if you’re making more than 100k you’re in like the the top 15% of earners lmao

 

[TangoBearFox]

Every other professional job requires a degree. And even then what do you think the average salary of a person is. Because if you’re making more than 100k you’re in like the the top 15% of earners lmao

Do you think a degree is the be all to end all in pay? Look at our numbers, scarcity commands higher wages. Less controllers, more planes, more money. The amount of time it takes to train, the fact the we are one of the only places in the federal government that can fire people and do regularly. There are 11,000 FAA CPC controllers in the US. There are city police and firefighters that don't have degrees and make more and their pension is better, it's not apples to apples but using your example as no degree required.